Running down a Squadron/Station
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Running down a Squadron/Station
Good afternoon - just having read the threads about 'rescuing' the name plate and 'The good (bad) old days' about very sharp peacetime loses a few questions came to mind about when units or Stations are run down or closed.
- How is morale and flying discipline affected or managed?
- How quickly does the activity fade away on a station to become a sleepy hollow?
- Any interesting stories about genuine 'finds' if say a building is reactivated? Sort of Urbexing before it became a thing.
e.g. I was told that when there was a Gliding School at RAF Burtonwood c1970 on non flying days the old sections of the base would be explored and one person found a bundle of Love letters to an American WW2 airman from his girlfriend back home. Unfortunately I never found out if they were returned etc.
- How is morale and flying discipline affected or managed?
- How quickly does the activity fade away on a station to become a sleepy hollow?
- Any interesting stories about genuine 'finds' if say a building is reactivated? Sort of Urbexing before it became a thing.
e.g. I was told that when there was a Gliding School at RAF Burtonwood c1970 on non flying days the old sections of the base would be explored and one person found a bundle of Love letters to an American WW2 airman from his girlfriend back home. Unfortunately I never found out if they were returned etc.
How is morale and flying discipline affected or managed?
On flying supervision, there are enough tragic examples to brief people on how much better it is to get through the "end of days" unscathed and enjoy a lifetime of fond reminiscences than it is to risk souring memories forever. The Fairchild B-52 and Glen Kinglas F-3 crashes offer clear lessons on discipline and supervision, respectively. Younger aircrew have their reputation and future progression on a new type to consider; older (overconfident?) ones might paradoxically be more of a concern as far as indiscipline goes! An old-school approach would be to surprise people with a "congratulations on your final sortie, which was yesterday"; that might still be appropriate in rare cases but much better IMHO for a mutually-respectful, trusting approach to be employed wherever possible. The successful commander will communicate a clear end-state vision for the closure, which everyone can play their part in reaching and then enjoy the rewards (including the inevitable piss-up!)
Last edited by Easy Street; 8th Aug 2021 at 16:44.
The wrong way to do it is when some pr1ck of a politician announces it on the Jeremy Vine radio show before the 'official' announcement.
This is what happened when the Nimrod MRA 4 was scrapped and Kinloss was closed - my son heard it on the radio and phoned me up to tell me.
To say that I am still angry would be an understatement.
However, the disbandment of the squadrons and the eventual closure was handled with pride and openness.
HRH the Duke of Edinburgh was magnificent and the Stn Cdr lead us right through to the end..
This is what happened when the Nimrod MRA 4 was scrapped and Kinloss was closed - my son heard it on the radio and phoned me up to tell me.
To say that I am still angry would be an understatement.
However, the disbandment of the squadrons and the eventual closure was handled with pride and openness.
HRH the Duke of Edinburgh was magnificent and the Stn Cdr lead us right through to the end..
Avoid imitations
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Flying discipline…towards the end of an era…….”This is my last flight of this tour” etc. During my RAF time I saw many examples where someone announced “500 hours / 1000 hrs on type” etc and a big thing was made of it, sometimes to the point of wearing a badge. I made a decision early in my career never to celebrate that sort of thing and never really bothered to check when “milestones” were about to occur.
Having looked at my RAF logbook, I deliberately did unexciting trips such as fly as safety pilot for someone else’s IF training, or fly a post maintenance air test as my last flight on type, or on a tour.
Too many issues have been caused by that extrovert “Hey, watch this!” mentality. When it comes to flying, I’d much rather go out with a whimper than a bang.
Having looked at my RAF logbook, I deliberately did unexciting trips such as fly as safety pilot for someone else’s IF training, or fly a post maintenance air test as my last flight on type, or on a tour.
Too many issues have been caused by that extrovert “Hey, watch this!” mentality. When it comes to flying, I’d much rather go out with a whimper than a bang.
Last edited by ShyTorque; 8th Aug 2021 at 17:27.
Flying discipline…towards the end of an era…….”This is my last flight of this tour” etc. During my RAF time I saw many examples where someone announced “500 hours / 1000 hrs on type” etc and a big thing was made of it, sometimes to the point of wearing a badge. I made a decision early in my career never to celebrate that sort of thing and never really bothered to check when “milestones” were about to occur.
Having looked at my RAF logbook, I deliberately did unexciting trips such as fly as safety pilot for someone else’s IF training, or fly a post maintenance air test as my last flight on type, or on a tour.
Too many issues have been caused by that extrovert “Hey, watch this!” mentality. When it comes to flying, I’d much rather go out with a whimper than a bang.
Having looked at my RAF logbook, I deliberately did unexciting trips such as fly as safety pilot for someone else’s IF training, or fly a post maintenance air test as my last flight on type, or on a tour.
Too many issues have been caused by that extrovert “Hey, watch this!” mentality. When it comes to flying, I’d much rather go out with a whimper than a bang.
You are in good company!
CG
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I used to stay in the OM at RAF Linton on Ouse and was very moved by the wartime photographs in the anteroom of the Squadron CO, WC Gerry Warner and his crews on operations and on standdown nights. It would break my heart if such photographs of these brave men and their exploits were just binned as of "no further interest or use" I hope that there are procedures for the preservation of their memory. Can anyone enlightened me if that is the case?
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Only one I was involved in was when our Jag Sqn disbanded, it was a strange time as I was rostered on Q, so watched the Sqn disbanding parade etc through the fence of Q, we all got a print of us all in front of the Jags and tankard. It was a strange situation as although the Sqn had disbanded we were still stood up to NATO on Q until our jet came off line. We were all asked if we wanted any tools to put ones name down for them as they were going to be binned, I did wonder how that would sit later in my career if found in my possession. I often wonder what happened to the star fighter wing we had in the crew room, the other was a table behind the German block in Sardinia… both ermmmm souvenirs
Several of us were then posted onto different Sqns, I went to 14 And was on that for a fair while then when they were sorting out the disbandment of 14 some of us were swopped with the odd people station or moved to other sections if we didn’t have time left on our tour to complete with 14, I could never understand why you would take experience off a Sqn for a matter of weeks instead of simply extending the tours to suit. I did several weeks on the MU.
Posting in the RAF then could be varied, get stuck in a bay and it could be for you career, I was lucky I did first line, also I got a range of experience much to the amazement of a Jag Cpl on shift that did Jag U.K. Jag Germany Jag Scotland etc.
I was lucky three types of Helicopter, Jags and then VC10.
Several of us were then posted onto different Sqns, I went to 14 And was on that for a fair while then when they were sorting out the disbandment of 14 some of us were swopped with the odd people station or moved to other sections if we didn’t have time left on our tour to complete with 14, I could never understand why you would take experience off a Sqn for a matter of weeks instead of simply extending the tours to suit. I did several weeks on the MU.
Posting in the RAF then could be varied, get stuck in a bay and it could be for you career, I was lucky I did first line, also I got a range of experience much to the amazement of a Jag Cpl on shift that did Jag U.K. Jag Germany Jag Scotland etc.
I was lucky three types of Helicopter, Jags and then VC10.
Running down HQRAFG [or was it 2 Group a little later] saw some prime examples of souveniring ......theft even.
A wg cdr acquaintance of mine was happy to put a spoke in the wheel of a senior officer souveniring massive items of furniture.. The wg cdr was on the verge of retirement so had little to lose. Senior officer unamused but foiled.
It seems that some people reach a level where they sincerely believe the normal rules of civilisation do not apply, and it is not only a military attitude.
Me? Just my office door name-plate and job. The older I get the better I used to be.
A wg cdr acquaintance of mine was happy to put a spoke in the wheel of a senior officer souveniring massive items of furniture.. The wg cdr was on the verge of retirement so had little to lose. Senior officer unamused but foiled.
It seems that some people reach a level where they sincerely believe the normal rules of civilisation do not apply, and it is not only a military attitude.
Me? Just my office door name-plate and job. The older I get the better I used to be.
When the mess at Farnborough closed down, much of the contents were sold to mess members, however one item, a replica Spitfire on a plinth outside the mess said to be the exact point where Cody took off, disappeared and (as far as I know) was never recovered
Hearing the story of people jumping the gun about closures reminded me of an event in my past. Since this happened over20 years ago my memory may be at fault in some areas.
The Company had set up a review of the number of operating locations it had in the UK and Europe. The decision, highly confidential, was to close our site. As a matter of courtesy the local MP was informed, on a confidential basis. He was then granted a question at PMQ's and decided to raise the base closure with the PM. He did have the decency to tell our management the day before this was due to happen. This lead to a major kerfuffle on site. We were all called in to the main hall and told. To say this was a shock is somewhat of an understatement.
As I recall we were all sworn to secrecy until after PMQ's next day. After asking his question the PM of the day and asking what the Government might do for the 200 or so highly qualified and professional people might do the PM's response was that they would open a larger job centre in the town. Thanks Mr Blair, we all appreciated that.
Suffice to say that my previously poor opinion of polticialns has never recovered.
The Company had set up a review of the number of operating locations it had in the UK and Europe. The decision, highly confidential, was to close our site. As a matter of courtesy the local MP was informed, on a confidential basis. He was then granted a question at PMQ's and decided to raise the base closure with the PM. He did have the decency to tell our management the day before this was due to happen. This lead to a major kerfuffle on site. We were all called in to the main hall and told. To say this was a shock is somewhat of an understatement.
As I recall we were all sworn to secrecy until after PMQ's next day. After asking his question the PM of the day and asking what the Government might do for the 200 or so highly qualified and professional people might do the PM's response was that they would open a larger job centre in the town. Thanks Mr Blair, we all appreciated that.
Suffice to say that my previously poor opinion of polticialns has never recovered.
Dunno about the Mess silver, but when the station closed the Wives Club gave a silver plate statuette of a guide dog, presented to the Wives Club by Guide Dogs for the Blind, to my late wife (she had been chair of the Wives Club when they fund-raised to sponsor a guide dog puppy through training. Said puppy was named Biggin). After she died I presented the statuette, together with a copy of the story behind it, to a resident of our village who had adopted a former guide dog on its retirement.
The norm used to be that on closure, all the related goodies such as silver would go to the RAF Depot, when there was one (Uxbridge? Does it still exist?) and certainly not disappear piecemeal. So that, when a Sqn re-formed, the silver was available again.
There should be a whole stack of valuables somewhere.
There should be a whole stack of valuables somewhere.
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154559398...0AAOSwkFVhDS0Y
You do get the odd silver presentation items like this from Odiham and there is a cracking ww2 9 Sqn tankard in plate.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384317520...wAAOSwxLdhBXmz
Last edited by NutLoose; 10th Aug 2021 at 21:17.
I have been involved in 2 disbandments / rundowns. The first in the 96/97 pull out of Sek Kong and disbandment of 28(ac) Sqn. During that time we had to try and contact all old benefactors and return their property. If this was not possible any item that was not deemed worthy of keeping for historical reasons were gifted to local organisations like the Hong Kong Air Cadets or auctioned and sold off. Both Messes held auctions for the members and all Squadron property was passed to 28 for return to UK and the New 28(ac)Sqn at Benson.
By the time 10 Sqn disbanded in 2006 the rules had changed a little. When a squadron disbands, property not returned to the owner, is the catalogued and becomes the property of The RAF Museum and is held in their store in Stafford. Should the Sqn reform it can then be reissued but it remains museum property. This is to ensure that things don't mysteriously disappear. All Silver is held by the RAF Supply organisation in the Silver Store at Stafford for safe keeping and any mess or squadron may request to borrow some for a function and return afterwards.
By the time 10 Sqn disbanded in 2006 the rules had changed a little. When a squadron disbands, property not returned to the owner, is the catalogued and becomes the property of The RAF Museum and is held in their store in Stafford. Should the Sqn reform it can then be reissued but it remains museum property. This is to ensure that things don't mysteriously disappear. All Silver is held by the RAF Supply organisation in the Silver Store at Stafford for safe keeping and any mess or squadron may request to borrow some for a function and return afterwards.
