The Good Old Days (not so)
Not to be thought playing in a I can beat that game....but I can with the caveat that my story relates to combat action.
We frequently flew over a small valley between a pair of smallish sized ridges....not very high or long.....that had a nice flat pretty perfect makings of a perfect place to land a flight of helicopters.....too perfect as it turned out.
It was called "34 Valley".
The reason....seven derelict USMC H-34 helicopters were still there in staggered trail formation....where they had been shot to pieces during a Combat Assault earlier in the war and been abandoned due to their condition.
The opposition understood what made for the perfect landing zone in their Area of Operations and once realizing the possibility prepared a warm welcome for our arrivals.
Bear in mind...that was one day, one sortie of helicopters to a single location by one Squadron....no doubt there were other aircraft losses in the rest of the two Vietnams and Laos.
Frequently we over flew the wrecks of helicopters and airplanes that had. been lost and left where they were found....far too many just disappeared along with their crews.
Those were not the good old days at all.
We frequently flew over a small valley between a pair of smallish sized ridges....not very high or long.....that had a nice flat pretty perfect makings of a perfect place to land a flight of helicopters.....too perfect as it turned out.
It was called "34 Valley".
The reason....seven derelict USMC H-34 helicopters were still there in staggered trail formation....where they had been shot to pieces during a Combat Assault earlier in the war and been abandoned due to their condition.
The opposition understood what made for the perfect landing zone in their Area of Operations and once realizing the possibility prepared a warm welcome for our arrivals.
Bear in mind...that was one day, one sortie of helicopters to a single location by one Squadron....no doubt there were other aircraft losses in the rest of the two Vietnams and Laos.
Frequently we over flew the wrecks of helicopters and airplanes that had. been lost and left where they were found....far too many just disappeared along with their crews.
Those were not the good old days at all.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...raft_from_1945
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quinton
This is a very far from complete list: for example a total of 890 Gloster Meteors were lost in RAF service (145 of these crashes occurring in 1953 alone), resulting in the deaths of some 450 pilots.
13 August 1951 PG367 a Vickers Wellington Mk XVIII of No. 228 Operational Conversion Unit of RAF Leeming, collided with a Miles Martinet NR570 over Hudswell in North Yorkshire. An Air Cadet on the Wellington was given a parachute, told how to operate it and ordered to jump by the navigator, Flight Lieutenant John Quinton. The Air Cadet survived, but all eight aircrew aboard both planes died, when their aircraft hit the ground.[15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quinton
The KING has been graciously pleased to approve the posthumous award of the GEORGE CROSS to Flight-Lieutenant John Alan Quinton, D.F.C. (11571), Royal Air Force, No. 228 Operational Conversion Unit. On August the 13th, 1951, Flight-Lieutenant Quinton was a Navigator under instruction in a Vickers Wellington aircraft which was involved in a mid-air collision. The sole survivor from the crash was an Air Training Corps Cadet who was a passenger in the aircraft, and he has established the fact that his life was saved by a supreme act of gallantry displayed by Flight-Lieutenant Quinton, who in consequence sacrificed his own life. Both Flight-Lieutenant Quinton and the Cadet were in the rear compartment of the aircraft when the collision occurred. The force of the impact caused the aircraft to break up and, as it was plunging towards the earth out of control, Flight-Lieutenant Quinton picked up the only parachute within reach and clipped it on to the Cadet's harness. He pointed to the rip-cord and a gaping hole in the aircraft, thereby indicating that the Cadet should jump. At that moment a further portion of the aircraft was torn away and the Cadet was flung through the side of the aircraft clutching his rip-cord, which he subsequently pulled and landed safely. Flight-Lieutenant Quinton acted with superhuman speed displaying the most commendable courage and self-sacrifice, as he well knew that in giving up the only parachute within reach he was forfeiting any chance of saving his own life. Such an act of heroism and humanity ranks with the very highest traditions of the Royal Air Force, besides establishing him as a very gallant and courageous officer, who, by his action, displayed the most conspicuous heroism.
Last edited by NutLoose; 2nd Aug 2021 at 16:09.
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This makes me feel very fortunate to even exist. My father flew The F-80 in the Korean War, F-84, F-86, F-89, F-100, F-101, F-102, F-104, F-106 all in the eight years before I was born in 1959. Wow.
Slightly off thread, but when the RAF went on the offensive over France in 42/43 they lost over 1800 aircraft and more pilots were killed than in the BoB IIRC.
Most of these losses were down to ground fire and nothing was achieved.
It was a terrible waste of life and resources, deemed necessary by C in C Fighter Command, to go on the offensive.
At least one pilot who was senior in rank ,Wing Leader etc ( may have been Johnnie Johnson), complained to Command, that they didn't mind mixing it with German fighters, but objected to be being put out of action ,or worse, by a German with a rifle. This fell on deaf ears and was a sorry time in Fighter Commands war.
Most of these losses were down to ground fire and nothing was achieved.
It was a terrible waste of life and resources, deemed necessary by C in C Fighter Command, to go on the offensive.
At least one pilot who was senior in rank ,Wing Leader etc ( may have been Johnnie Johnson), complained to Command, that they didn't mind mixing it with German fighters, but objected to be being put out of action ,or worse, by a German with a rifle. This fell on deaf ears and was a sorry time in Fighter Commands war.
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I lost my boss in a meteor 7 crash in Germany. He was checking another pilot who tried to overshoot on one below Vmca.
in terms of peacetime lives lost, the Shackleton crashes of the 50/60’s were tragic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...vro_Shackleton
in terms of peacetime lives lost, the Shackleton crashes of the 50/60’s were tragic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...vro_Shackleton
My career, [such as it was], as a forecaster began in 1960. Numerical forecasting was in its infancy, indeed still in the womb. The basic qualifications were a handful of relevant A Levels and a thick skin. Suddenly, there we were, at the sharp end, being asked to predict cloud base to within a few hundred feet, weather events to within half an hour, and visibility to fit RED AMB YLO GRN WHT BLU.. I know that a number of colleagues could not hack the strain of being responsible, of being wrong. We felt every accident, every loss, dreadfully. The "state of the art" was simply not up to the demands.
I think this was also true for the aircraft, and the training. Everybody sucked it up, that was how it was, the cold war was under way, and people put a brave face on things..
In retrospect I was incredibly lucky [yes, I worked my balls off to be accurate, but we were pig-ignorant] to never lose an aircraft or a crew on my watch..
Contrast forecasting in those days to the present, where major organisations make major decisions on the 5-day forecast. I was privileged to work with and for the pioneers of numerical weather forecasting, the heirs and successors to Alan Turing and his like. These men and women are the unsung heroes and heroines of astonishing progress.
It must be the red wine.
I remember we had two forecasters a Bovingdon in 1961. One was a pessimist, the other an optimist and if you could speak to both, taking the mid position of both their forecasts turned out to be pretty accurate!
We had a great weather-guesser at Gütersloh in the late 70s, who was very much trusted by us pilots. One Friday afternoon, he rang the squadron and advised that we all go to the bar. 30 minutes later we were hit with rain ice that turned the airfield into a skating rink, broke the tops off all the birch trees and locked people out of their cars by covering them in sheet ice.
Eh! Those were the days!
Mog
Eh! Those were the days!
Mog
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I recall arriving at West Raynham for a Canberra tour to be reminded that Norfolk weather could be a bit unpredictable.
It seems they lost a whole squadron of hunters from the DFtrLdrs course one morning through a suckers gap
It seems they lost a whole squadron of hunters from the DFtrLdrs course one morning through a suckers gap
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We had a great weather-guesser at Gütersloh in the late 70s, who was very much trusted by us pilots. One Friday afternoon, he rang the squadron and advised that we all go to the bar. 30 minutes later we were hit with rain ice that turned the airfield into a skating rink, broke the tops off all the birch trees and locked people out of their cars by covering them in sheet ice.
Eh! Those were the days!
Mog
Eh! Those were the days!
Mog
The tower front steps had a stone wall edging that gave a good view if one went to the high end, about 5 ft above ground. Unfortunately I discovered it had a slight slope. One gently accelerating Met man, condemned to a ski jump down 5 feet on to an ice sheet. I expect I went base over apex but you only remember the good bits.
Rain ice every winter at least once. The Beetle was not the best choice.
The above accident rates always crossed my mind regarding George Bush (jr).
(Not interested in a political discussion, just an observation)
Younger Bush was accused of "hiding" from combat during the Viet Nam War while flying a F-102. It did cross my mind that maybe he really was an idiot, hiding out in the cockpit of a Century Series fighter always seemed a wee bit more at risk to one's pink arse than performing one of many other possible non-combat jobs around Saigon.
My US civilian flight instructor barely survived his ejection from one. Sadly, 2 people on the ground did not.
(Not interested in a political discussion, just an observation)
Younger Bush was accused of "hiding" from combat during the Viet Nam War while flying a F-102. It did cross my mind that maybe he really was an idiot, hiding out in the cockpit of a Century Series fighter always seemed a wee bit more at risk to one's pink arse than performing one of many other possible non-combat jobs around Saigon.
My US civilian flight instructor barely survived his ejection from one. Sadly, 2 people on the ground did not.
