Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

RAF Fast Jets To Practice Dispersal Off MOBs

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

RAF Fast Jets To Practice Dispersal Off MOBs

Old 25th Jul 2021, 12:46
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 View Post
The article - originally in The Telegraph - got ahead of itself by jumping on the old Jaguar video and The Drive went along with it.

Clearly any dispersal is going to be to former military airfields - attempting to be as covert as possible with a minimum visible footprint - or civilian airfields.

I was the Project Officer the last time this was tried - 2 x Tornado GR1 in a simulated nuclear strike role - landed at dusk on a non-flying unit then in current military ownership - shut down on the waterfront in front of a vacant 1930s hangar - towed in rapidly - with tractor and parallel GSE towing attachment (as used for 2 in a HAS).

Held at RS15 using a secure comms briefcase that converted a BT phone into a secure one.
No a reliable system nowadays, in event of emergency Cell coverage will be the first to go.
You need a cadre of Ham Radio operators!
ve3id is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 13:44
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,953
You need a cadre of Ham Radio operators!
As witness the comms in Independence Day which resorted to Morse Code!
BEagle is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 19:27
  #83 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,173
Originally Posted by ve3id View Post
No a reliable system nowadays, in event of emergency Cell coverage will be the first to go!
Not a cell phone.

The BID/470 Brahms was a briefcase "with not much room for your sandwiches" that you plugged into a standard BT landline wall socket converting it into a secure speech device. State of the art back in the 1980s !

RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 19:33
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: nr Ely, Cambs
Age: 58
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 View Post
Russia Threat Could See U.K. Fighter Jets Operating From Highways Once Again (thedrive.com)

CAS has announced there will be no-notice exercises for this.

A lot of preparation is going to be needed in terms of planning / resourcing how all the required GSE and drill weapons for re-arms gets moved to multiple locations at once, how a limited pool of aircraft spares is split between locations and moved, what comms SEngO / JEngOs will be provided with to keep a grip on what is going on etc.
If they got rid of the damm cars parked all over Wyton they could use that as well!
brokenlink is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 21:30
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,953
I recall some barking mad exercise we had at Brize once. The idea was that we would deploy to Fairford as a DOB.....until the cost of such an idea became apparent. So instead we stayed at Brize and worked from a squalid group of huts down by JATE. Which was OK, except that the engineers insisted on full MOB turnrounds rather than the QTRs we normally enjoyed on detached ops. That put the kybosh on the flying programme and the whole thing turned to rats....
BEagle is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 21:42
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 20,461
Our boss when told to put up blackouts at Brize had a wonderful tropical beach scene picture that fitted the window perfectly, the makes you feel good factor was lost on the Distaff.

Bruggen when modernising the HAS painted Has size squares on the apron for us to operated from.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 21:58
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 20,461
Re secure comms , you won’t need to worry about classified info getting out while you have muppets like this in the forces.

https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/w...ssified-specs/
NutLoose is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 22:07
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Darling - where are we?
Posts: 2,527
So come the moment of crisis:

How many jets?
How many dispersal locations?
Assessment of likely size of Russian first wave strike?

I had to write a paper on the V-Force whilst at Staff College, turned up some interesting research that suggested even dispersed 80% of the V-Force could be destroyed in a Soviet first strike.

So my question to CAS is what’s changed since then to make that possibility any less likely? Simple to use robust aircraft might be able to go from motorways; I can’t see an F35 managing it given the technical requirements just to start the dammed engine. And it sure as hell won’t be operating out of hide sites. And I don’t see Typhoon being much better. So that narrows it down to fixed sites. Oh erm, we’ve sold our airfields? Hmmm right then, civilian airfields it is ala Battle of Britain. Let’s hope they hide the signatures.

Sounds like a good idea but rather impractical given the corner we’ve painted ourselves into. It also works on the assumption that the aircraft and airfields are likely to be the main targets. With so few pilots these days, it wouldn’t take much effort to thin those numbers down even further before they even got anywhere close to a jet.

Last edited by Melchett01; 25th Jul 2021 at 22:38.
Melchett01 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 22:54
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 76
Time to engage Virtucon as consultants.
NAROBS is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 23:00
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 76
What would be achieved from surviving a first strike anyway ?

Unless it was lite, life on most of the planet would be fnished. Just look what a moderate amount of global warming has done and will be doing.



NAROBS is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 23:04
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 76
Perhaps the best policy is to stop volunteerng as somebody else's sacrificial target.
NAROBS is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 00:00
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 76
A quick Google-wiki reveals that neither the F35 or Typhoon @ respective wingspans of 10.7 or 11.0 meters would fit in the standard HS2 tunnel internal diameter of 9.1m. (That was bright, wasn't it ?) . Anycase it would be pretty optimistic thinking that anything could fly in the dust and smoke filled air anywhere near a first strike.
The old Civil Defence Reports that were available to be read in the local Civic Centre library in the '70s stated that any facility within a 30 mile radius of central London would be U/S, so you can kiss goodbye to Northwood, Wycombe,, Northolt, Heathrow and perhaps Stanstead and the remainder of the big military bases and civilian airports would be taken -out with lesser devices.

Command & control wouldn't be available 'cause ground and space based radars and optics would be either taken out or rendered unuseable/unreliable by radiation and dust, all the terrestial microwave link towers will either be out of alignment from the shockwaves or demolished and most of the copper and fibre optics wiring will have been 'Cooked-off' in its plastic coats.

Country's interest would probably best be served by immediate surrender in the knowledge that previously recruited regiments of femme-bots would be deployed to greet the incoming occupying forces, a sort of stay-behind force, and, hopefully, subvert them to Western ways. So, safe storage of the femme bots, until needed, would be contingency planning priority.

Last edited by NAROBS; 26th Jul 2021 at 23:18.
NAROBS is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 10:08
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 20,461
I suppose UK PLC will be buying back all those now not so Secret Nuclear Bunkers, and removing the Secret Nuclear Bunker road signage dotted around the Country?
NutLoose is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 11:43
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 307
And bring back the ROC!
Ninthace is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 11:47
  #95 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,024
A quick Google-wiki reveals that neither the F35 or Typhoon @ respective wingspans of 10.7 or 11.0 meters would fit in the standard HS2 tunnel internal diameter of 9.1m. (That was bright, wasn't it ?)
I blame the Romans…..


p.s. The bore of the HS2 tunnels varies between 7.55m to 8.8m.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ction_v1.3.pdf
ORAC is online now  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 12:11
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 350/3 Compton
Age: 73
Posts: 400
I believe that the standard gauge for our railways was taken from the width of the cart-wheel tracks at Pompeii.
Mogwi is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 15:02
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 3,532
its supposed to be Housesteads on the Roman Wall

Bit of an urban myth if you google it - probably more to do with designing a cart around the width of a single horse
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 15:23
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 20,461
So what was the Great Western track based on? Brunel's favoured 7' 0¼" gauge.

As a side note, the Romans invented cats eyes as well in a circumspect route, they used to scatter marble waste chippings along the roads in cities which would reflect in the light of the burning torches on chariots.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 18:15
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhones-Alpes
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Deltasierra010 View Post
If hostilities do break out satellite surveillance is so fast the enemy would just follow the support convoy, thankfully nobody is likely to start a shooting war with Russia
That would require geo-stationary satellites and I believe surveillance ones are orbiting.

Tartiflette Fan is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 20:23
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Northumberland, England
Posts: 235
Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
And bring back the ROC!
I would be double-hatted, then

My old post still exists, but the old Group HQ has been flattened and tarmac'd as a car park...
Tocsin is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.