RAF Fast Jets To Practice Dispersal Off MOBs
The article - originally in The Telegraph - got ahead of itself by jumping on the old Jaguar video and The Drive went along with it.
Clearly any dispersal is going to be to former military airfields - attempting to be as covert as possible with a minimum visible footprint - or civilian airfields.
I was the Project Officer the last time this was tried - 2 x Tornado GR1 in a simulated nuclear strike role - landed at dusk on a non-flying unit then in current military ownership - shut down on the waterfront in front of a vacant 1930s hangar - towed in rapidly - with tractor and parallel GSE towing attachment (as used for 2 in a HAS).
Held at RS15 using a secure comms briefcase that converted a BT phone into a secure one.
Clearly any dispersal is going to be to former military airfields - attempting to be as covert as possible with a minimum visible footprint - or civilian airfields.
I was the Project Officer the last time this was tried - 2 x Tornado GR1 in a simulated nuclear strike role - landed at dusk on a non-flying unit then in current military ownership - shut down on the waterfront in front of a vacant 1930s hangar - towed in rapidly - with tractor and parallel GSE towing attachment (as used for 2 in a HAS).
Held at RS15 using a secure comms briefcase that converted a BT phone into a secure one.
You need a cadre of Ham Radio operators!
Thread Starter
The BID/470 Brahms was a briefcase "with not much room for your sandwiches" that you plugged into a standard BT landline wall socket converting it into a secure speech device. State of the art back in the 1980s !
Russia Threat Could See U.K. Fighter Jets Operating From Highways Once Again (thedrive.com)
CAS has announced there will be no-notice exercises for this.
A lot of preparation is going to be needed in terms of planning / resourcing how all the required GSE and drill weapons for re-arms gets moved to multiple locations at once, how a limited pool of aircraft spares is split between locations and moved, what comms SEngO / JEngOs will be provided with to keep a grip on what is going on etc.
CAS has announced there will be no-notice exercises for this.
A lot of preparation is going to be needed in terms of planning / resourcing how all the required GSE and drill weapons for re-arms gets moved to multiple locations at once, how a limited pool of aircraft spares is split between locations and moved, what comms SEngO / JEngOs will be provided with to keep a grip on what is going on etc.
I recall some barking mad exercise we had at Brize once. The idea was that we would deploy to Fairford as a DOB.....until the cost of such an idea became apparent. So instead we stayed at Brize and worked from a squalid group of huts down by JATE. Which was OK, except that the engineers insisted on full MOB turnrounds rather than the QTRs we normally enjoyed on detached ops. That put the kybosh on the flying programme and the whole thing turned to rats....
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Our boss when told to put up blackouts at Brize had a wonderful tropical beach scene picture that fitted the window perfectly, the makes you feel good factor was lost on the Distaff.
Bruggen when modernising the HAS painted Has size squares on the apron for us to operated from.
Bruggen when modernising the HAS painted Has size squares on the apron for us to operated from.
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Re secure comms , you won’t need to worry about classified info getting out while you have muppets like this in the forces.
https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/w...ssified-specs/
https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/w...ssified-specs/
So come the moment of crisis:
How many jets?
How many dispersal locations?
Assessment of likely size of Russian first wave strike?
I had to write a paper on the V-Force whilst at Staff College, turned up some interesting research that suggested even dispersed 80% of the V-Force could be destroyed in a Soviet first strike.
So my question to CAS is what’s changed since then to make that possibility any less likely? Simple to use robust aircraft might be able to go from motorways; I can’t see an F35 managing it given the technical requirements just to start the dammed engine. And it sure as hell won’t be operating out of hide sites. And I don’t see Typhoon being much better. So that narrows it down to fixed sites. Oh erm, we’ve sold our airfields? Hmmm right then, civilian airfields it is ala Battle of Britain. Let’s hope they hide the signatures.
Sounds like a good idea but rather impractical given the corner we’ve painted ourselves into. It also works on the assumption that the aircraft and airfields are likely to be the main targets. With so few pilots these days, it wouldn’t take much effort to thin those numbers down even further before they even got anywhere close to a jet.
How many jets?
How many dispersal locations?
Assessment of likely size of Russian first wave strike?
I had to write a paper on the V-Force whilst at Staff College, turned up some interesting research that suggested even dispersed 80% of the V-Force could be destroyed in a Soviet first strike.
So my question to CAS is what’s changed since then to make that possibility any less likely? Simple to use robust aircraft might be able to go from motorways; I can’t see an F35 managing it given the technical requirements just to start the dammed engine. And it sure as hell won’t be operating out of hide sites. And I don’t see Typhoon being much better. So that narrows it down to fixed sites. Oh erm, we’ve sold our airfields? Hmmm right then, civilian airfields it is ala Battle of Britain. Let’s hope they hide the signatures.
Sounds like a good idea but rather impractical given the corner we’ve painted ourselves into. It also works on the assumption that the aircraft and airfields are likely to be the main targets. With so few pilots these days, it wouldn’t take much effort to thin those numbers down even further before they even got anywhere close to a jet.
Last edited by Melchett01; 25th Jul 2021 at 22:38.
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I suppose UK PLC will be buying back all those now not so Secret Nuclear Bunkers, and removing the Secret Nuclear Bunker road signage dotted around the Country?
And bring back the ROC!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
A quick Google-wiki reveals that neither the F35 or Typhoon @ respective wingspans of 10.7 or 11.0 meters would fit in the standard HS2 tunnel internal diameter of 9.1m. (That was bright, wasn't it ?)
p.s. The bore of the HS2 tunnels varies between 7.55m to 8.8m.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...ction_v1.3.pdf
its supposed to be Housesteads on the Roman Wall
Bit of an urban myth if you google it - probably more to do with designing a cart around the width of a single horse
Bit of an urban myth if you google it - probably more to do with designing a cart around the width of a single horse
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So what was the Great Western track based on? Brunel's favoured 7' 0¼" gauge.
As a side note, the Romans invented cats eyes as well in a circumspect route, they used to scatter marble waste chippings along the roads in cities which would reflect in the light of the burning torches on chariots.
As a side note, the Romans invented cats eyes as well in a circumspect route, they used to scatter marble waste chippings along the roads in cities which would reflect in the light of the burning torches on chariots.
No folders on F35s, so max difficulty even fitting them below decks on the older carriers, . . . Let alone tunnel based readiness positions per the Yugoslav/Swiss Cold War "Air station in a mountain" model.
So if there's been no intention in the UK the last 70 years to spend the akkers on new "First strike" proof shelters for "The day after" operations, then what's left ? US MX missile impersonations for retaliation ?. But the UK isn't the US in land area, so the launch solution would end up on as a RATOG-on-a-rail on a dropside trailler of a 38 tonner . . . . Think F100, trucking along the highways and byeways and at readiness for long periods and up to the first denotation, easily observable from space. Lovely.
I would have thought the main priorities for such survivors would be for information collection by reconnaisance . . . Who's still there, whose not . . . Who has usuable warlike resources that can be marshalled and point defence of remaining friendly surviving facilities and, as an outlier, a second strike on the remaining assets of the aggressor, Dr Strangelove style, to minimise the "Bunker gap" when survivors of either side eventually emerge.
A jet heli would probably have better post-first strike survivability/usuability and be able to do the reconnisance role and the point defence role could be assigned to Patriot type missile batteries and specifically designed point-defence aircraft . . . . Its all been done before:-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNEC...%A9opt%C3%A8re
The PD conception being a pinch from the wartime RLM.
What a delightful prospect.
So if there's been no intention in the UK the last 70 years to spend the akkers on new "First strike" proof shelters for "The day after" operations, then what's left ? US MX missile impersonations for retaliation ?. But the UK isn't the US in land area, so the launch solution would end up on as a RATOG-on-a-rail on a dropside trailler of a 38 tonner . . . . Think F100, trucking along the highways and byeways and at readiness for long periods and up to the first denotation, easily observable from space. Lovely.
I would have thought the main priorities for such survivors would be for information collection by reconnaisance . . . Who's still there, whose not . . . Who has usuable warlike resources that can be marshalled and point defence of remaining friendly surviving facilities and, as an outlier, a second strike on the remaining assets of the aggressor, Dr Strangelove style, to minimise the "Bunker gap" when survivors of either side eventually emerge.
A jet heli would probably have better post-first strike survivability/usuability and be able to do the reconnisance role and the point defence role could be assigned to Patriot type missile batteries and specifically designed point-defence aircraft . . . . Its all been done before:-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNEC...%A9opt%C3%A8re
The PD conception being a pinch from the wartime RLM.
What a delightful prospect.
After a first strike I would think most military survivors will be more concerned about the welfare of their families than anything else!
"Two laybys closed on the A1 near Biggleswade. No signs of any f-35s though.."
Boy! that stealth coati REALLY works.......................
Boy! that stealth coati REALLY works.......................
The ability to disperse your forces won't necessarily prevent such a sub-threshold event but may make the task more challenging and retain you a credible deterrent in that grey zone.
If people start dropping nukes, all these bets are off