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Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

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Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Old 6th Jul 2021, 12:45
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

What air assets will remain based in Qatar and elsewhere to provide air support - and of course Elint and strikes against Al Qaeda, Daesh etc as the bubble up...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...orward-command

Washington approves establishment of ‘US Forces Afghanistan Forward' command

US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin has approved the establishment of a new command in Afghanistan that will be tasked with overseeing the few hundred US troops that will remain in the Central Asian country once Washington completes its military drawdown by the end of August.

The Kabul-based ‘US Forces Afghanistan Forward' command will be in charge of protecting the US diplomatic presence in the country, supporting security requirements at Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul, providing continued advice and assistance to the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces (ANDSF), and supporting US counter-terrorism efforts, Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby told reporters on 2 July.

The new command, which is currently being stood up, will be led by US Navy Rear Admiral Peter Vasely, whose command will be supported by US Army Brigadier General Curtis Buzzard, who will lead the Defense Security Management Office Afghanistan. That office will be based in Qatar and administer funding support for the ANDSF to include ‘over-the-horizon' aircraft maintenance support, noted Kirby.

As part of the ongoing drawdown process, Austin also approved a plan to transfer command authority over US Forces-Afghanistan (USFOR-A) from US Army General Scott Miller to US Marine Corps General Frank McKenzie, the head of US Central Command (USCENTCOM), added Kirby, pointing out that the transfer is set to become effective later this month.

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/mid...s-2033972.html

“(McKenzie) will continue to exercise authority over the conduct of any and all counterterrorism operations needed to protect the homeland from threats emanating out of Afghanistan, and he will lead efforts to develop options for the logistical, financial and technical support to Afghan forces once our drawdown is complete,” Kirby said.

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...l-top-concern/

After troops exit, safety of US Embassy in Kabul top concern

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — As the end to America’s “forever war” rapidly approaches, the U.S. Embassy and other diplomatic missions in Kabul are watching a worsening security situation and looking at how to respond.

In the countryside, districts are falling to the Taliban in rapid succession. America’s warlord allies are re-arming their militias, which have a violent history, raising the specter of another civil war once the U.S. withdrawal is finished, expected in August.

A U.S. Embassy spokesperson told The Associated Press that security assessments are frequent these days. Speaking on condition of anonymity in line with briefing rules, she said the embassy is currently down to 1,400 U.S. citizens and about 4,000 staff working inside the compound the size of a small town.

A well-fortified town, that is. Besides its own formidable security, the embassy lies inside Kabul’s Green Zone, where entire neighborhoods have been closed off and giant blast walls line streets closed to outside traffic. Afghan security forces guard the barricades into the district, which also houses the Presidential Palace, other embassies and senior government officials.

The only route out is Kabul’s Hamid Karzai International Airport, currently protected by U.S. and Turkish troops. Before America can declare its war over, the security of the airport will have to be settled. Ankara is in talks with Washington, the United Nations and the Afghan government to decide who will protect the airport and who will foot the bill.

For now, the airport is running without interruption, except for restrictions imposed by a deadly third COVID surge that has prompted some countries to suspend flights to Kabul. However, India is not one of them — as many as eight flights arrive weekly from India — and as a result, the virus’ delta variant, first identified in India, is rampant in Afghanistan.

In Kabul, it’s common to hear speculation about when and if the U.S. Embassy will evacuate and shut down, with images resurrected of America’s last days in Saigon at the end of the Vietnam war.....

Citing security concerns, the U.S. spokesperson said she couldn’t reveal evacuation plans, or even if that’s a part of today’s conversation, but said the embassy has detailed plans for every scenario to protect its staff.....


Heavily armed guards patrol Wazir Akbar Khan streets, lined with marble mansions of government officials, many of them former warlords. Though united today against the Taliban, they have a brutal history of fighting each other.

For some, a Taliban play for Kabul seems inevitable.

“After the takeover of the districts and some provinces, the Taliban will make a try to enter Kabul,” said Torek Farhadi, a former adviser to the Afghan government. “They will face the regular army, but also the warlords who have accumulated huge wealth out of war related contracts.”
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 15:30
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[QUOTE=ORAC;11074170]What air assets will remain based in Qatar and elsewhere to provide air support - and of course Elint and strikes against Al Qaeda, Daesh etc as the bubble up...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...orward-command

Good article thanks. My understanding is that, at present, the Taliban (and other ACM) do not have access to Specific hardware that would necessitate Elint support so that would not be my highest priority.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 16:04
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Another Afghan War lost.................. that's Britain's 4th - you'd think we'd learn................
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 16:14
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Another Afghan War lost.................. that's Britain's 4th - you'd think we'd learn................
I’m curious, as you’ve popped up on every thread of this nature with a similar sentiment , how long you spent in Afghanistan?

the Taliban are committed and willing to die for their cause, but they aren’t some ninja type of master tactician. They didn’t win the war, Western politicians surrendered. It started withGeorge W shifting forces to the sideshow in Iraq at a critical time, was confirmed by Obama announcing a withdrawal and now completed by Biden’s last flight out of Saigon exodus

Please don’t regale us with the view of the Daily Mail editor.


Last edited by minigundiplomat; 6th Jul 2021 at 16:43.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 17:30
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Another Afghan War lost.................. that's Britain's 4th - you'd think we'd learn................

The British Army realised that in the 19th Century and General Staffs were advised to warn Politicians against any further expeditions.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:05
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Bush...Obama...Biden....why no mention of Blair et al?

Also...how many Generals...from both the US and UK Militaries presided over this twenty year War....and allowed yet another Vietnam and Iraq happen?

Care to take up that part of the discussion of what went wrong?

How many of them "went along to get along....and get promoted"?
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 19:37
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Care to take up that part of the discussion of what went wrong?
Because I titled the thread 2021 onwards because it’s intended to be about the future, not raking over the previous 20 years.

Please feel free to start a thread covering 2001 to 2021 if you wish to rake over the coals - doing so in this thread would inevitably mean the original intent would be swept away - at which point I’ll erase my first post - and the thread.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 21:20
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Because I titled the thread 2021 onwards because it’s intended to be about the future, not raking over the previous 20 years.

Please feel free to start a thread covering 2001 to 2021 if you wish to rake over the coals - doing so in this thread would inevitably mean the original intent would be swept away - at which point I’ll erase my first post - and the thread.
Well, the path forward is already interesting, with China building a 4 lane road to the country at their short shared border over the Wakhjir Pass, earlier an important link in the Silk Road.
The US on leaving foolishly destroyed all the gear too big to remove. Had they left their massive truck and equipment park, there would have been a commercial link in the reasonably near future. As is, nothing remains but destruction.

The Chinese have money and ample civil engineering resources, they surely would love to be on the ground floor in rebuilding Afghanistan.. There is just the small matter of religion.
Perhaps the Taliban will soft pedal that aspect, to get the country back to some semblance of progress. Considering that, Vietnam is now friends with the US to balance China, possibly the Taliban will evolve similarly, if the US turns the page.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 01:45
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The remaining Turkish military may seize control of the Opium and drug trade and force the poor Afghanies to quit cold Turkey .
Might mean even cheaper drugs for Europe . That might be a good thing if the junkies do not have to steal as much to feed their addictions .
Either way it may turn into a street drug gang tribal turf war like Seattle , NewYork and Chicago .
The same gangs with roots in Afghanistan , India , Pakistan , Iran , throw a few Triads and Friendly Societies into the mix and you could have the ingredients for a global civil war creating a dystopia like most video games try to emulate .
Mad Max was set in 2021 .
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 02:09
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ORAC,

Unfortunately one cannot isolate the past from the present or the future....as it all has connections, influences, old wrongs, and debts owed that shall determine how the future turns out.

Likewise, Religion, Politics, and government shall all play a role in how this turns out....how do you ignore those influences without looking to the past.

China has some policies that are going to be a cause of discord with the Taliban it would appear....so I would be surprised that the new China -Afghanistan shall be a smooth road to travel in the future.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/02/25/...c-cooperation#
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 02:45
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The asshole of the world. There's no reason for any American or European to die there again. Just monitor for nukes and bomb the shit out of them when they're getting close. The Israelis learned this decades ago.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 03:06
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The Pashtun like to fight and are good at it. The Taliban recruit heavily from that part of the population. The rest? We'll see if they have the stomach to fight for what they want. If they don't, the Taliban will be in charge again in a few years, with ample support from the Pakistanis,
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 04:43
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The last time the Taliban ran Afghanistan they were a remarkably incompetent government. Like ISIS they will find it is a lot easier killing people and blowing stuff up than actually running the place. Afghanistan has been resistant to central government dictatorship for 500 years. The Taliban will eventually wear out their welcome and Afghanistan will revert to its traditional decentralized provincial power certres.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 06:15
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As an Australian I will paraphrase Bismarck;

“The whole of Afghanistan is not worth the bones of one Australian SAS”

Mission creep and lack of clearly defined definitions of success at its worst.Why do we in the West keep doing it?

Plus , as Asturias56 has pointed out, a comprehensive ignorance of history.

I’m extremely happy we are out.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 08:27
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"I’m curious, as you’ve popped up on every thread of this nature with a similar sentiment"

Because when I see people making the same mistake over and over again I feel despair.

History proves that foreigners intervening in places like the Yemen, Afghanistan, Congo, etc leads to a disaster for all parties. They have very serious problems and these can't be fixed by a few foreigners coming in hoping to change things in a few years using military strength or money or people. They have to sort themselves out.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 08:31
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"I’m curious, as you’ve popped up on every thread of this nature with a similar sentiment"

Because when I see people making the same mistake over and over again I feel despair.

History proves that foreigners intervening in places like the Yemen, Afghanistan, Congo, etc leads to a disaster for all parties. They have very serious problems and these can't be fixed by a few foreigners coming in hoping to change things in a few years using military strength or money or people. They have to sort themselves out.
You left out Vietnam………..
I wonder if there is a 2021 version of “The Pentagon Papers” hiding out there.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 14:05
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"I’m curious, as you’ve popped up on every thread of this nature with a similar sentiment"

Because when I see people making the same mistake over and over again I feel despair.

History proves that foreigners intervening in places like the Yemen, Afghanistan, Congo, etc leads to a disaster for all parties. They have very serious problems and these can't be fixed by a few foreigners coming in hoping to change things in a few years using military strength or money or people. They have to sort themselves out.

Using your logic the United States should have sat out WWI and WWII, Korea, The Suez Canal, Vietnam, Gulf War I, not supported Israel, Somalia, or even the Cold War I suppose.

I do fully agree with your despair over making the same mistakes over and over....it is not the jumping in that is the major mistake....it is why and how that causes the problems.

The last real War we fought was WWII...the rest have been "limited Wars"....and we can see how all of those have turned out.

If we are to engage in War...it must be done to win by destroying the enemy's ability and will to fight.....with no limit to how it is done.

ROE's, Lawyers, and the reluctance to get right down to the business of destroying the enemy is our Achilles Heel.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 15:32
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I agree with much of what you say - Vietnam was one that could have been won, or at least strung out for longer. A decent Govt in the South would have helped. I think

Yemen and Afghanistan are more difficult - they all fight each other at the drop of a hat but if a foreigner appears they're turn on them first - I've known families like that

And when it's everyone against you, not organised forces, it becomes hard to wipe out the whole country
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 02:46
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Originally Posted by TukwillaFlyboy View Post
As an Australian I will paraphrase Bismarck;

“The whole of Afghanistan is not worth the bones of one Australian SAS”

Mission creep and lack of clearly defined definitions of success at its worst.Why do we in the West keep doing it?

Plus , as Asturias56 has pointed out, a comprehensive ignorance of history.

I’m extremely happy we are out.
Very much agree, but the near term will be messy as the Taliban take over, which they appear to be on course to complete this summer.
Perhaps we will be able to resist the calls for intervention for 'humanitarian reasons' this time, unlike in Syria, Libya or Kosovo.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 06:02
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At first, British soldiers promoted European civilization in India and Afghanistan and drew Durand lines, until now the region can`t calm down. Then the Americans seized Iraq, so much so that gangsters crawled out of all the holes there and democracy went everywhere in the American way. In Syria, too, if the Russians had not prevented it would have been the same. The next hundred years, perhaps, the Chinese will promote their own orders there. I forgot to mention about the Russians in Afghanistan, at least they were building socialism there.
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