Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Old 8th Aug 2021, 20:01
  #61 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,023
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...-in-three-days

Taliban captures three more Afghan provincial capitals in a day
ORAC is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 06:30
  #62 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,023
Things rapidly falling apart, including the Afghan Air Force - I don’t think a few B-52 air strikes are making much difference

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...ties-9svhbk0dt

Afghan pilots quit as Taliban take five cities in three days

Afghanistan slid towards collapse yesterday as the Taliban stormed three more cities and pilots deserted the air force after a colleague was murdered.

Five provincial capitals have fallen to the insurgents in three days as militants overran the northern cities of Kunduz, Sar-e Pol and Taloqan. A Taliban offensive left more than a dozen cities under siege after the dam burst on Friday as the western city of Zaranj fell without a shot being fired.

The northern city of Sheberghan capitulated on Saturday, after days of fighting. Other provincial capitals were on the brink of defeat.

Morale in the air force took a blow on Saturday when a helicopter pilot was killed in Kabul by a bomb attached to his car. The Taliban claimed the murder of Hamidullah Azimi, who was trained to fly US Black Hawks. He was the eighth Afghan pilot to be murdered in recent weeks.

The US-trained air force is pivotal to the defence against the Taliban. One pilot told The Times that at least 19 colleagues had fled the military, fearing assassination.

“I have been flying for ten years,” he said. “From the day I put on my uniform I swore to defend my country until the last drop of blood . . . but seeing my friends assassinated . . . I do not feel safe. I have to change the car I use every single day, borrowing my friends’ cars to drive to work. I can’t spend time outside my home. I can’t go shopping, not even get a haircut, to protect my identity and reduce the risk.”

With no air force the Taliban began to “target and eliminate” Afghan air force pilots. The pilot said that the strategy was working. He urged the government to move personnel and their families to military bases for safety.

“About 19 pilots left the job,” he said. “I am considering leaving my job. If the government can guarantee my family’s safety I will stay on base and fight for ever.”…..

The Afghan defence ministry said a counterattack had begun in Kunduz but its grip on the northern region appears to be slipping. The head of the provincial council for Sar-e Pol confirmed that the capital had fallen and fighting raged in Sheberghan, the capital of Jowzjan province.….

US and Afghan forces launched airstrikes, pounding Taliban positions. One insurgent commander dismissed the attacks from US bases and a carrier in the Gulf. He said: “America spent 20 years in Afghanistan and ultimately fled under a deal to save face. These airstrikes . . . will not last much longer.”….

ORAC is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 22:09
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 20,461

Afghanistan’s air force is a rare U.S.-backed success story. It may soon fail


https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...ir-force-story


https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war...zoom-call.html
NutLoose is online now  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 22:49
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,116
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
It was a peaceful country slowly developing until outside forces came into play.
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, said Chairman Mao.
Thus far that looks like a pretty correct call.
etudiant is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 23:35
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 743
It reminds me of Vietnam in 1975. A peace deal in name only that was agreed to by one side to buy time and the other just to get the hell out of there. The side that was always going to be staying just waiting to overwhelm government forces that don't have the strength to resist.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2021, 03:16
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Coast Canada
Posts: 4,082
The worst thing that could happen to the Taliban is for them to win. Their last go at running the country was an unmitigated disaster. There is reason the 2001 air campaign defeated them in 20 days. They had squandered almost all of their popular support.

The Taliban is ultimately just another outsider supported invading force. They will get their arses kicked like everyone else who tried to upset the natural conglomeration of decentralized provincial ruler model, that has existed in Afghanistan for hundreds of years; in favour of a centralized autonomous governing power.

Plus the vast majority of the Taliban are good at killing people and blowing things up but have none of the actual skills required to run a country. The abject failure of ISIS to hold on to their conquered land is a useful recent example of the strengths and the weaknesses of these kinds of movements.
Big Pistons Forever is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2021, 07:44
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 3,532
Yup - they lasted about 5 years - bit longer in some areas - basically they 're very much a Pashtun based group . As we've seen other Afghans have a limited tolerance for dominance by "outsiders" - however defined
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2021, 08:13
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: A place in the sun
Age: 80
Posts: 1,040
"Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it," George Santayana. I strongy recommend the two books mentioned by skridlov and TakwillaFlyboy:-

The Great Game by Peter Hopkirk
The Return of the King by William Dalrymple

However hard we fought, I don't think the West ever had a chance to change Afghanistan. It will be very interesting to see if the Chinese with a different approach will succeed.
Bergerie1 is online now  
Old 10th Aug 2021, 16:13
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,295
The Frontier Scouts by Charles Chenevix Trench sadly did not get the attention it merited from our leaders.

Bottom line: The Pashtun tribes are ungovernable.
RatherBeFlying is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2021, 16:27
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 71
Posts: 1,585
Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post
The Frontier Scouts by Charles Chenevix Trench sadly did not get the attention it merited from our leaders.

Bottom line: The Pashtun tribes are ungovernable.
Even first taught to us as blinking Flight Cadets doing War studies at the Towers in the 60's.
" Never accede to militarily supporting political adventuring in Afghanistan,as the British Army learned to its cost in the last century,that it will never work"
I remember the metaphorical cheer that went up around the U.K. Defence Intelligence community in late '79 when the Soviets went in ,"Now they're for it!"
Little did we appreciate, or even conceive then, that it would be our politicians taking us in next..........

Last edited by Haraka; 11th Aug 2021 at 09:52.
Haraka is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2021, 18:07
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: LGW Overhead
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post
The Frontier Scouts by Charles Chenevix Trench sadly did not get the attention it merited from our leaders.

Bottom line: The Pashtun tribes are ungovernable.
Agreed. 'A Million Bullets' is also a good read.

Last edited by Vortex Hoop; 10th Aug 2021 at 21:04. Reason: Grammar
Vortex Hoop is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 03:36
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Washington.
Age: 71
Posts: 642
Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post
"Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it," George Santayana. I strongy recommend the two books mentioned by skridlov and TakwillaFlyboy:-

The Great Game by Peter Hopkirk
The Return of the King by William Dalrymple

However hard we fought, I don't think the West ever had a chance to change Afghanistan. It will be very interesting to see if the Chinese with a different approach will succeed.
Agreed. Never should have tried/ Though I appreciate the objective of having a stable Afghanistan to bolster security. As hard as it is to swallow, leaving is the right thing. We could be there another 5, 10, or 20 years and not have a different result, except more casualties.
GlobalNav is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 10:09
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: sussex
Age: 72
Posts: 134
There's a great deal that could be said about Pakistan's involvement - but seldom is, at least as far as news coverage is concerned. The US government also continues its fan dance where Pakistan (ISI) culpability is concerned. Given that the Taliban's activity has now expanded into large scale conventional unit operations the sheer scale of munitions required to sustain it has grown massively. And yet I don't recall a single news item or documentary that attempts to account for the source, scale or routes of the related supply chain. Its source is Pakistan of course, notionally a US ally...

Up to the last week or so I assumed that the Tajiks would hold out, at least in the Panjshir, as they did last time the Taliban were in Kabul. But news reports suggest that some Tajik units are going over to the Taliban - and of course sealing the border into Tajikistan cuts off that source of support. There's a similar situation in western Afghanistan where the border crossing at Islam Quala was quickly taken and nearby Herat is probably soon to fall. At the moment Mazar is surrounded too. I wonder where General Abdul Rashid Dostum is these days? He was famous for running tanks over captured Talibs or cooking them in transport containers, so I doubt that they're going to welcome him if he decides to perform one of his about-face moves.

The parallels with the US withdrawal from Vietnam are remarkable. US troops withdraw leaving a "well equipped national army" to defend the state. Which army collapses in a matter of weeks.

AlJazeera is the only broadcast channel giving serious coverage to the situation with a few journalists still on the ground there.
skridlov is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 10:30
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 71
Posts: 1,585
Unfortunately this ongoing dilemma with Pakistani factions can't be sidestepped this time by concocting a few imaginary "Stealth Blackhawks"

Last edited by Haraka; 11th Aug 2021 at 10:43.
Haraka is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 14:00
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wherever it is this month
Posts: 1,636
Our former Foreign Secretary David Miliband was on Radio 4 this morning in his capacity as Head of the International Rescue refugees' charity (the name always makes me laugh). Anyway, he was on about the duty of Western countries to prevent Afghanistan's neighbouring states from becoming overwhelmed by refugees. He mentioned Pakistan as an example of a state needing help. Sadly, the interviewer didn't press the obvious point that maybe the Pakistani deep state should have thought about that while busily undermining everything the West was trying to achieve next door.
Easy Street is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 15:44
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 20,461
One sometimes thinks we would have been better off just supplying all the villages and city folk with weapons and let them fight it out.. The Taliban who will be in the minority can only exert pressure over a town or village if they hold the upper hand, arming everyone in that village would soon put that right.. Mind you it wouldn't be nice to start with, but eventually some sort of peace would endure.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 16:45
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,295
One sometimes thinks we would have been better off just supplying all the villages and city folk with weapons and let them fight it out.


Tanks and artillery can upset that balance. We have seen that Stingers can counter air power.

Anti-tank missiles could level the playing field.
RatherBeFlying is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 17:04
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,116
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
One sometimes thinks we would have been better off just supplying all the villages and city folk with weapons and let them fight it out.. The Taliban who will be in the minority can only exert pressure over a town or village if they hold the upper hand, arming everyone in that village would soon put that right.. Mind you it wouldn't be nice to start with, but eventually some sort of peace would endure.
Sure seems that missionaries teaching love, forgiveness and turning the other cheek might be even more effective over time as well as a lot cheaper, if only they could live long enough.
etudiant is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 17:10
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 71
Posts: 1,585
Assymetric warfare anybody?
You can't " bomb the bastards back in to the stone age "when that's all they recognise and accept......
Haraka is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2021, 17:14
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 3,532
In fact many of the Taliban positively WANT to be back in 7th Century Arabia..................
Asturias56 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.