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Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

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Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Old 22nd Aug 2021, 11:10
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BV, quite. The "graveyard of empires" trope only dates from 2001 and has been widely debunked in academia. And no-one ever seems to mention that the British Empire achieved its strategic goal in Afghanistan, which was preventing Russian interference in India. Too many confuse tactical defeat with strategic failure.

As for Blair decrying the sloganeering of "ending the forever wars", what did he think of the "Global War on Terror"? Incorrigible.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 11:17
  #422 (permalink)  
 
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The Afghans asked for more Mi-8s, which they could already maintain themselves, and instead had contractor-supported Blackhawks foisted upon them. This was widely criticised at the time but happened anyway. Way to go, military-industrial complex
That was never going to happen, the USA do not build the MI-8, so were never going to buy someone else’s product and not support their homegrown industries.

Last edited by NutLoose; 22nd Aug 2021 at 12:18.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 11:48
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
That was never going to happen, the USA do not build the MI-8, so we’re never going to buy someone else’s product and not support their homegrown industries.
Exactly, it's just another example of how conflicting objectives and strategic myopia in western capitals hamstrung the campaign right from the start. Principle of war #1: selection and maintenance of the aim. If the US was serious about winning in Afghanistan, it would've held its nose and struck a deal for some Hips.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 12:19
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Which the U.K. did I believe to train their Mi-8 pilots.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 13:24
  #425 (permalink)  
 
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Some happier news for a change, to boost the morale:

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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 13:58
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Delivery

Honest question:

What will be the citizenship of that child? Afghan? German/EU? American?

BV
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 13:58
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Excellent news, I wonder what passports they will eventually hold.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 13:59
  #428 (permalink)  
 
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Great minds think alike Bob

Is Ramstien counted as US territory? If not Afghan / German until naturalised in the USA?
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 14:57
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Not german (none of the EU countries grant nationality to sky babies AFAIK). So most likely afghan, unless U.S. allows the use of aircraft registration country option.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 15:03
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Don't know if anyone has seen or posted this but it was posted by Bruce Cromptom, yesterday from a American friend. Just thought it a good follow on from the earlier post about the American asking the British army to stop making them look bad....


"
We’re all witnessing the harrowing stories coming out of the chaos happening in Afghanistan right now.
I have been passed on this message via a good friend of mine who is ex Para reg.
On reading this, I’ve felt compelled to share as its the type of thing that can be left out of from our regular news channels and it’s is important for people to know.
Please read below. And know all our hearts go out to the people stranded and fearing for your lives.
If anyone has any links to specific charities that are offering help to the humanitarian disaster happening out in Afghanistan right now, please feel free to share in the comments below-

‘I’m not on Facebook but my wife is. The following post was put up by John Hanson who was a US officer attached to 2 Para for two years and deployed to Iraq with us - and other places. He even has a Reg tattoo on his chest.

It’s worth a read.

“And through all the horror of what we have witnessed in Aghanistan these last few days, today we learn that our NATO allies were never notified of our withdrawal while their forces in country were over 8000 men and women to our 2500, which are now all in jeopardy and remain in jeopardy while our embassy was evacuated and theirs have not. How does a faithful ally leave 8000 allies hanging in the balance with a decision of this magnitude while we pull people out in advance namely most of our aviation technicians, intel specialists and our glorious embassy staff who left and now are being reconstructed to fix the mistake? How do we make a decision to run without telling our allies who frankly have more human capital at stake? What insanity or cowardice is that?

How do we allow my former battalion where I proudly served from 1999 to 2001, over two years in the UK, consisting of 600 brave men from 2d Battalion, The Parachute Regiment, bravely venture into Kabul to rescue the Queens subjects while our force of now 6000 soldiers and marines strong says it isn’t possible - watch the Pentagon press conference today for evidence on exactly that topic since everything seems to be questioned these days.

My brave friends from 2 Para are doing what I would both want to do and expect from my government. I know the paratroopers of 2 Para are scared and sky news reported last night that many of them cried themselves to sleep overnight at the airport because babies had been thrown up over the walls of the airport and those babies had caught up in the razor wire and could not be saved.

Those same British paratroopers took matters into their own hands today as I mentioned, venturing into Kabul to secure British subjects. While my Army secures the airport. I love my Army, my fellow Rangers and paratroopers, but tonight my pride stands with my at risk brothers in 2 Para and my brothers in the UK SAS and other special forces. Because while I will always be American, faithfully, I will always stand with action vs inaction when it comes to the political will to execute in a time of crisis.

Thank you to the few, the men of 2 Para for keeping my hopes alive and to the 6000 men and women of the US task force, we hope you inculcate this example as one you can live up to.

Just in case any of you were confused...”
"
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 17:34
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An ex Socialist Prime Minister of the United Kingdom calling the decisions of a Democratic President of the United States 'inbecilic'.
Blair a socialist??? That will be news to a lot of people, including most of the modern day labour party.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 17:37
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I offer a small but important correction to what some of you have been writing. Those who are familiar with Afghanistan know that the word "Afghani" refers only to the Afghan currency. People are not Afghanis; there was no "Afghani empire", etc. The people are "Afghans". Please don't consider this as pedantic as it certainly is not. No more than if you thought I was being pedantic if I referred to an American as an Americani. It's simply incorrect. Live and learn.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 19:47
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Originally Posted by Easy Street
Exactly, it's just another example of how conflicting objectives and strategic myopia in western capitals hamstrung the campaign right from the start. Principle of war #1: selection and maintenance of the aim. If the US was serious about winning in Afghanistan, it would've held its nose and struck a deal for some Hips.
We did purchase and supply Mi 17’s, quite a number of them in fact, however the politics that subsequently followed, the way in which the various contracts were awarded, the amount of dollars involved, the behind the scenes infighting of “the 17 can’t do this, the 60 can” by the US manufacturer, backed up by various Senators, the “punish the Russians for x, y and z” infractions around that time, led to a ban on any Russian aviation products, from helo’s to consumables to overhauls.
Yet certain programs managed to skirt around the edges, with a blind eye turned multiple times.

in my opinion, we did a vast disservice to the Afghan Air Force, it was perfectly capable of operating and maintaining the Russian equipment, it had done so for years prior.
However, in the aviation arena, and others, we purposely led them down the road of the latest/greatest, a path to failure right from the start, why, sad to say, money.
There are a multitude of stories regarding the above, a couple of them that would absolutely dumbfound folks if they ever came to light, however, years have passed, best let sleeping dogs lay.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 20:31
  #434 (permalink)  
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As I was saying….

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-cash-runs-low

Afghans face economic ruin as prices rise and cash runs low
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 20:37
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Originally Posted by ORAC
As I was saying….

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-cash-runs-low

Afghans face economic ruin as prices rise and cash runs low
One does wonder how a bunch of AK-47 toting true believers are going to keep the power, sewage and water systems running for a city of 4MM plus.
Sadly, Pol Pot showed that it was quite possible to solve that problem...
Meanwhile, Europe can relax, there won't be millions of Afghan refugees, they will die along the way.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 20:52
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Estimates of what they now have material wise

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/21/p...tan/index.html

I do wonder if it’s truly over post evacuation or will there be some follow ons to remove some of the remaining assets from the equation. Some items like aircraft etc.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 21:18
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Many of the retrospectives on the campaign identify the 'original sin' as Rumsfeld's direction to exclude the Taliban from the Bonn process and therefore any role in the governance of Afghanistan after 2001. Essentially, an enemy was needed after al-Qaeda melted away and the Taliban was going to be it. Since that seems to have been acknowledged as a mistake, on the basis that we should have compromised at the moment of maximum strength, one has to wonder what purpose would be served by the West refusing to deal with them now that the tables are turned, unless we are planning to mount a 20-year insurgency to defeat them by force (unlikely). If the welfare of Afghans and prevention of a refugee crisis is important to us then a deal offering recognition in return for unfettered distribution of aid would presumably be under consideration. Alternatively we could howl impotently about the barbarity of the regime while doing nothing to alleviate the suffering of Afghan people. There's no ethically pure answer.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 21:34
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https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...t-biden-doing/

One: Is it normal for an American president to take 36 hours to respond to an urgent call from the U.K. Prime Minister? Sure, some delay, during an ongoing foreign crisis, is to be expected. But a day and a half?
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 22:14
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Lets go deep, Biden is working on drafts of his letter of resignation. Meanwhile Harris is picking out new China for the White House.

You heard it first (today at least) here.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 22:43
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Originally Posted by West Coast
Lets go deep, Biden is working on drafts of his letter of resignation. Meanwhile Harris is picking out new China for the White House.

You heard it first (today at least) here.
Problem is, do you honestly think Kamala will be an improvement?
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