Afghanistan 2021 Onwards
Can't believe what a nasty, selfish and inward looking old man Biden's turning out to be. He portrays someone who would happily discard any and all of the supporting NATO forces at Kabul if he thought it would enable US personnel to make a clean break. Sad that it has come to this; wouldn't be surprised if the Paras' CO and in-situ RAF commander are now having to watch the US troops like a hawk to see if they are preparing to do a sneaky runner.
Although it is clearly chaotic at the airport, at least it is sort of stable while they are still doing the NEO part - God knows what it is going to like as US/ other NATO they start withdrawing their evac. forces and collapsing the perimeter. So much depends on the 'goodwill' and capacity of the Taliban but I've got a horrible feeling that things are going to get a lot more desperate. Hope their is some kind of plan-B though I can't imagine what that might be, unless troops are successfully thinned-out so that smaller A/C such as C-130/Chinooks can take the last ones out to a staging point
Although it is clearly chaotic at the airport, at least it is sort of stable while they are still doing the NEO part - God knows what it is going to like as US/ other NATO they start withdrawing their evac. forces and collapsing the perimeter. So much depends on the 'goodwill' and capacity of the Taliban but I've got a horrible feeling that things are going to get a lot more desperate. Hope their is some kind of plan-B though I can't imagine what that might be, unless troops are successfully thinned-out so that smaller A/C such as C-130/Chinooks can take the last ones out to a staging point
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Reference my comment at post #398 about the US forces complaining UK performing rescue operations outside the airport risked endangering evacuation operations. From the American press….
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ng-us-look-bad
US general tells British special forces: Stop rescuing people in Kabul, you're making us look bad
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ng-us-look-bad
US general tells British special forces: Stop rescuing people in Kabul, you're making us look bad
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Hmm, strange report. After the statement (admittedly full of weasel words) from the 18th that no such request was made, the journalist carries on as if to ignore the denial: not even using conditional language like 'such a show of tension would reflect three factors'....
“The XVIII Airborne Corps denies the central thrust of this story," the spokesman said. "Specifically, Gen. Chris Donahue, whose sole focus is security at HKIA, never made such a request to any British Army officials and would have no motive for doing so.”
This show of rare tension between the U.S. and British command groups in Kabul reflects three factors.
This show of rare tension between the U.S. and British command groups in Kabul reflects three factors.
Last edited by Easy Street; 21st Aug 2021 at 19:48.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
I’m taking “denial of the central thrust”, to mean they deny it was said because it made them look bad. Which leads into the other reasons mentioned in the report - including via the links such as the one below.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ail-high-risks
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ail-high-risks
How to rub it in 101
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ous-wwii-photo
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ous-wwii-photo
Top Taliban unit, donning US military gear, appears to mock famous WWII photo
The Taliban ‘Special Forces - Badri 313’ are just mocking America now with their PR machine.
80,000 Taliban to hold a country the size of Afghanistan is going to be a big ask, especially with the amount of equipment and arms that have no doubt been squirrelled away by those ex forces and those opposing them. That is one thing that has probably changed since the first time they did, especially as it’s being reported they have dragged units in from the countryside to take Kabul.
Originally Posted by NutLoose
How to rub it in 101
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ous-wwii-photo
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ous-wwii-photo
(for those who may not follow US Politics, Biden is a big ice cream fan, with frequent social media photos of him eating an ice cream cone)
The US is now telling American civilians to avoid the airport.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58293832
You couldn’t make this up, I feel sorry for the guys on the ground trying to make sense out of the cr*p coming out of Washington.
Biden in the early days had my respect and admiration after coco the clown lost the election, but he is coming across in this as a senile old man.
He will NEVER be able to request the help of other nations again after he pulled the rug out from under them and leaving them hanging out to dry, even now they do not know how long they have in Kabul, the trust has gone.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58293832
You couldn’t make this up, I feel sorry for the guys on the ground trying to make sense out of the cr*p coming out of Washington.
Biden in the early days had my respect and admiration after coco the clown lost the election, but he is coming across in this as a senile old man.
He will NEVER be able to request the help of other nations again after he pulled the rug out from under them and leaving them hanging out to dry, even now they do not know how long they have in Kabul, the trust has gone.
Originally Posted by NutLoose
The US is now telling American civilians to avoid the airport.
You couldn’t make this up, I feel sorry for the guys on the ground trying to make sense out of the cr*p coming out of Washington.
You couldn’t make this up, I feel sorry for the guys on the ground trying to make sense out of the cr*p coming out of Washington.
)Biden's track record on foreign policy has been dismal for a long time - but this is an all time low. And Biden can't pin this on Trump - Trump may have set the wheels in motion for the withdrawal, but all the clown show moves have happened on his watch. Besides, Biden has reversed nearly every Trump policy in place when Biden took office.
Crikey - I feel for the guys and girls on the ground at the airport.
Even though the SOAR is there (thank you Orac) and there are AC-130s circling - can't help but get a sense of Mogadishu - good guys encircled by a whole lot of bad guys.
Even if the bad guys are playing friendly for the moment.
Even though the SOAR is there (thank you Orac) and there are AC-130s circling - can't help but get a sense of Mogadishu - good guys encircled by a whole lot of bad guys.
Even if the bad guys are playing friendly for the moment.
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Rory Steward, former international development secretary, made interesting observations about the US withdrawal.
That the Afghan army were left without air cover
Afghan army had no maintainance capacity of helicopters
No US soldier been killed in previous 18 months or UK soldier for longer.
US keep troops in South Korea, why not Afghanistan, given the low cost of 2500 troops?
Mjb
That the Afghan army were left without air cover
Afghan army had no maintainance capacity of helicopters
No US soldier been killed in previous 18 months or UK soldier for longer.
US keep troops in South Korea, why not Afghanistan, given the low cost of 2500 troops?
Mjb
Last edited by mickjoebill; 22nd Aug 2021 at 03:36.
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill
Rory Steward, former international development secretary, made interesting observations about the US withdrawal.
That the Afghan army were left without air cover
Afghan army had no maintainance capacity of helicopters
No US soldier been killed in previous 18 months or UK soldier for longer.
US keep troops in South Korea, why not Afghanistan, given the low cost of 2500 troops?
That the Afghan army were left without air cover
Afghan army had no maintainance capacity of helicopters
No US soldier been killed in previous 18 months or UK soldier for longer.
US keep troops in South Korea, why not Afghanistan, given the low cost of 2500 troops?
As to the points you highlight:
- The Afghans asked for more Mi-8s, which they could already maintain themselves, and instead had contractor-supported Blackhawks foisted upon them. This was widely criticised at the time but happened anyway. Way to go, military-industrial complex
- No Western soldiers have been killed for 18 months because that was the one watertight commitment the Taliban made in its February 2020 deal with Trump and Pompeo. They had already threatened a resumption of attacks if the withdrawal deadline wasn't met. All the other clauses of the deal were loose enough for the Taliban to keep fighting Afghan forces and put in place the network of deals which eventually brought the government down. There was no incentive in the Doha agreement for either the Taliban or the individual kleptocrats in Kabul to actually reach a power-sharing deal.
- Surprising that a man of Rory Stewart's intellect can't see that Afghanistan is not like South Korea. The US did not face an armed insurgency in Korea; a ceasefire is not the same as an active conflict. Troops live sustainable, normal lives there with their families. It's a clear strategic interest for the US to contain China's influence on the opposite shore of their common ocean, and to provide a flank for their treaty commitment to the Japanese. By contrast Afghanistan is just one of several places worldwide that could host terror groups, and in any case the Chinese and Russians have no interest in allowing such groups to take root in their own back yards. Let them deal with it.
Afghanistan
It appears to me, from reading this thread and many others like it, that in order to declare oneself a genius and master of military history and doctrine all one has to do is to point out that Britain (and other nations throughout history) have ventured into Afghanistan in the past.
We all know this. This is a military forum and, besides, Wikipedia has told us anyway.
Unless there is something Earth shattering and can clearly be demonstrated to have been foretold (I’m thinking the Mayans and 2012 - although thankfully that was wrong) can we stop pointing out, in a pseudo-intellectual way that Britain has, in fact, fought a war in Afghanistan before?
BV
We all know this. This is a military forum and, besides, Wikipedia has told us anyway.
Unless there is something Earth shattering and can clearly be demonstrated to have been foretold (I’m thinking the Mayans and 2012 - although thankfully that was wrong) can we stop pointing out, in a pseudo-intellectual way that Britain has, in fact, fought a war in Afghanistan before?
BV
