Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Old 16th Aug 2021, 20:50
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,290
Received 67 Likes on 34 Posts
Guys all take a chill pill and breathe, firing in the air can be just as bad, several were killed in Tripoli from “celebrations” involving firing in the air.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 20:50
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 1,034
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
Clearly not a meeting of minds, and this thread is not going to answer my serious question, so I shall research it off Forum.
Still waiting to hear your personal involvement in this catastrophe though fella....

Will we be waiting long...?
downsizer is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 20:56
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,290
Received 67 Likes on 34 Posts
Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
I have visions C-17s rolling down the runway with the top of the ac covered in passengers, Indian Railways style
and so do the Afghans sadly..




NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 20:57
  #244 (permalink)  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: The Gulf Coast
Posts: 1,319
Received 21 Likes on 16 Posts
For those of you not interested in Twit sites, a summary of what was in @Easy Street's interesting link. (Much noise edited out, and of course consider who it was who posted that information).
1/The collapse of the Government in Afghanistan this past week was so swift and complete - it was disorienting and difficult to comprehend. This is how the events seemed to proceed from my perspective as Central Bank Governor.
2/Although much of the rural areas fell to the Taliban over the past few months, the first provincial capital to fall was just 1 week and two days ago! On Friday August 6th, Ziranj fell. Over the next 6 days, a number of other provinces fell - particularly in the north.
3/There were multiple rumors that directions to not fight were somehow coming from above. This has been repeated by Atta Noor and Ismael Khan. Seems difficult to believe, but there remains a suspicion as to why ANSF left posts so quickly. There is something left unexplained
@Atamohammadnoor
· Aug 14
My dear countrymen! Despite our firm resistance, sadly, all the government & the #ANDSF equipments were handed over to the #Taliban as a result of a big organised & cowardly plot. They had orchestrated the plot to trap Marshal Dostum and myself too, but they didn’t succeed.
4/Currency volatility and other indicators had worsened, but DAB were able to stabilize the macroeconomic environment relatively well during the last week - given the deteriorating security environment. Then came last Thursday
5/I attended my normal meetings. Ghazni fell in the morning. I left work, and by the time I went home - Herat, Kandahar, and Baghdis also fell. Helmand was also under serious attack
6/Friday - we received a call that given the deteriorating environment, we wouldn’t get any more dollar shipments. People spread rumors that I had fled on Friday. On Saturday, DAB had to supply less currency to the markets on Saturday, which further increased panic.
T28B is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 21:00
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 872
Received 12 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
Clearly not a meeting of minds, and this thread is not going to answer my serious question, so I shall research it off Forum.
I was taught it in theory many moons ago. I think it dates from Aden if not before and was in the context of the Riot Act or its local equivalent, rather than as a means of crowd control, and needed sign off from a legal authority.
These days things have moved on. I believe crowd control is now actively taught and practised as part of deployment training.
Actions would be determined by ROE. Circumstances under which you may open fire are very restricted. Fairly sure they do not include firing into the air or at unarmed civilians. American ROE are almost certainly different.
Ninthace is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 21:21
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,290
Received 67 Likes on 34 Posts
24 military helicopters and 22 aircraft with 600 military personnel safely down in Uzbekistan, one plane shot down by air defence, crew ok. I assume the personnel were crews and engineers plus families? Some of the shots seen of captured helicopters were not airworthy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-soldiers.html


Uzbekistan's neighbour Tajikistan said Monday it had allowed over 100 Afghan military members to land at Bokhtar airport in the south of the country.

'Tajikistan received SOS signals, after which, in accordance with the country's international obligations, it was decided to allow Afghan servicemen to land at the airport,' the Tajik foreign ministry's information department told Russian news agencies Interfax and RIA Novosti.

RIA Novosti reported that three planes carrying the soldiers had landed in Bokhtar during the night.
disturbing reports in link is Uzbekistan may return some soldiers that crossed the border.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 21:30
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,290
Received 67 Likes on 34 Posts
I feel for this guy

Shafi Arifi, who had a ticket to travel to Uzbekistan on Sunday, was unable to board his plane because it was packed with people who had raced across the tarmac and climbed aboard, with no police or airport staff in sight.

'There was no room for us to stand,' said the 24-year-old. 'Children were crying, women were shouting, young and old men were so angry and upset, no one could hear each other. There was no oxygen to breathe.'

After a woman fainted and was carried off the plane, Arifi gave up and returned home.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 21:30
  #248 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 13,983
Likes: 0
Received 30 Likes on 18 Posts
From the above report:

Uzbekistan said it shot down an Afghan fighter plane and forced the landing of 22 military planes and 24 military helicopters carrying nearly 600 Afghan troops that 'illegally' crossed its border at the weekend when the Taliban took control of Afghanistan.

The 46 Afghan aircrafts carrying 585 troops were 'forcibly landed' at Termez aiport in southern Uzbekistan on Saturday and Sunday after they had fled the Taliban, the country's state prosecutor said. …

The men were offered food and temporary accommodation in Uzbekistan, and the statement said Uzbekistan was negotiating with the 'Afghan side' over their return home.

Caroline Tabler, a communications director for U.S. Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton, said the GOP lawmaker's office was working urgently to support Afghan pilots fleeing from the Taliban to Uzbekistan.

'We're working with an intermediary who's been in touch with the pilots,' she told the AP. “We have not heard from them since last night (Washington) time. We know Uzbekistan has taken their cellphones. Our primary concern is making sure Uzbekistan does not turn them over to the Taliban. We are frantically reaching out to the State Department on this case and trying to get them asylum and literally can't get a response.'

Uzbekistan's neighbour Tajikistan said Monday it had allowed over 100 Afghan military members to land at Bokhtar airport in the south of the country.

'Tajikistan received SOS signals, after which, in accordance with the country's international obligations, it was decided to allow Afghan servicemen to land at the airport,' the Tajik foreign ministry's information department told Russian news agencies Interfax and RIA Novosti.

RIA Novosti reported that three planes carrying the soldiers had landed in Bokhtar during the night…..
ORAC is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 21:52
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 1,451
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Actual PAX count on RCH 871 was 640 - still amazing

RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 21:54
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 1,451
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Pentagon 2* military spokesman just now:

- Kabul Airport reopened.
- Next 2 x C-17A in had additional USMC and 82nd Airborne troops (of the original 6,000 - only 2,500 had been in place when over run).

Last edited by RAFEngO74to09; 16th Aug 2021 at 22:12.
RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 22:41
  #251 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 13,983
Likes: 0
Received 30 Likes on 18 Posts
Not sure it was the wrong decision - would you rather have squaddies guard civil servants saying no to visas whilst demanding suitable beds and meals, o4 squaddies doing the job themselves and just saying yes.

Not sure if the extra troops are the “Tac Admin” combat bounties being discussed on another thread…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-office-mod


Row erupts in cabinet over evacuation of UK diplomats from Kabul

Cabinet splits have emerged over Afghanistan, with the defence secretary, Ben Wallace, accusing the Foreign Office of evacuating diplomats while leaving soldiers and Ministry of Defence staff to handle the fallout of the Taliban takeover.

The frustrated minister told colleagues he believed there would be “a reckoning” for the Foreign Office after the crisis, sources told the Guardian.

He complained that diplomats had been “on the first plane out”, with MoD officials having to replace them and bear the brunt of processing resettlement claims for people trying to flee the Afghan capital.

MoD officials, some soldiers and other civil servants were on Monday helping frantic efforts to process claims from up to 4,000 Afghans thought to be eligible for resettlement in the UK amid chaotic scenes at Kabul’s international airport.

Wallace told senior colleagues he was frustrated at “18-year-old squaddies having to process visa applications of incredible complexity at speed” in an effort to get Afghans who helped the British during the 20-year conflict out of the country…..

Foreign Office officials are advising all British nationals still in Afghanistan “to shelter in place unless further flight options become available”, with some being hidden in safe houses in Kabul secured by the SAS. It is unclear how many more people the RAF will be able to evacuate.

On Monday night, the UK said it was sending in another 300 armed forces personnel to help safeguard the airport and process visa claims, taking its total to 900….

The MoD declined to comment on Wallace’s remarks while the Foreign, Commonwealth Development Office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.…
ORAC is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 23:27
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 880
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post

Something tells me the Taliban is not going to be kind to the LGBTI community...
does this chap have some evidence of the planning effort, or just a tweet it took a couple of seconds to send?
what do we think about his character seeing as this is what he finds to say when this is happening?
given the answer to the previous question, do we believe anything he says?
steamchicken is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 23:38
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Not sure it was the wrong decision - would you rather have squaddies guard civil servants saying no to visas whilst demanding suitable beds and meals, o4 squaddies doing the job themselves and just saying yes.

Not sure if the extra troops are the “Tac Admin” combat bounties being discussed on another thread…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-office-mod


Row erupts in cabinet over evacuation of UK diplomats from Kabul

Cabinet splits have emerged over Afghanistan, with the defence secretary, Ben Wallace, accusing the Foreign Office of evacuating diplomats while leaving soldiers and Ministry of Defence staff to handle the fallout of the Taliban takeover.

The frustrated minister told colleagues he believed there would be “a reckoning” for the Foreign Office after the crisis, sources told the Guardian.

He complained that diplomats had been “on the first plane out”, with MoD officials having to replace them and bear the brunt of processing resettlement claims for people trying to flee the Afghan capital.

MoD officials, some soldiers and other civil servants were on Monday helping frantic efforts to process claims from up to 4,000 Afghans thought to be eligible for resettlement in the UK amid chaotic scenes at Kabul’s international airport.

Wallace told senior colleagues he was frustrated at “18-year-old squaddies having to process visa applications of incredible complexity at speed” in an effort to get Afghans who helped the British during the 20-year conflict out of the country…..

Foreign Office officials are advising all British nationals still in Afghanistan “to shelter in place unless further flight options become available”, with some being hidden in safe houses in Kabul secured by the SAS. It is unclear how many more people the RAF will be able to evacuate.

On Monday night, the UK said it was sending in another 300 armed forces personnel to help safeguard the airport and process visa claims, taking its total to 900….

The MoD declined to comment on Wallace’s remarks while the Foreign, Commonwealth Development Office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.…
I wonder what the Foreign Non Secertary's defence was? The invisible man indeed. Downsizer, seems you got no response. Not surprised. The ROEs are part of deployment training as the rules of armed conflict. Where so when I did my IDT for Telic in very late 2007. A few people shouting "God is great" were throwing things that went bang at us quite often. That reminds me. Standing by the main apron of the COB one night, waiting for the DC8 freighter, I saw an small rapidly fast flying object fall to the ground on the huge apron illuminated by the floodlights. Almost shooting star looking. Did think at the time "What was that?" Would have been one of Nuttys stray 7.62mm rounds flying in. Scary.

Last edited by Cat Techie; 17th Aug 2021 at 00:23.
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2021, 00:28
  #254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
No surprise there.
Also no surprise here; Imran Kahn swooning over the Taliban.
Pick your preferred form of slavery, you'll get one or the other it seems.
My own experiences with Pakistan as "allies" as regards ops in Afghanistan (in the regions closest to Pakistan) are a bit dated (early 00's). Those those experiences taught me that Pakistan as an ally of convenience was a case of geographical necessity, not of mutually shared interests. They were a part of the problem, not a part of the solution.

Saw a brief bit on TV last night about China recognizing the Taliban; a practical response.
Is that a guess, wishful thinking, or a jest in bad taste?
No - it's an actual fact.
When I checked last night, there was an AC-130J enroute to Kabul.
tartare is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2021, 00:41
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
Also no surprise here; Imran Kahn swooning over the Taliban.
Pick your preferred form of slavery, you'll get one or the other it seems.
My own experiences with Pakistan as "allies" as regards ops in Afghanistan (in the regions closest to Pakistan) are a bit dated (early 00's). Those those experiences taught me that Pakistan as an ally of convenience was a case of geographical necessity, not of mutually shared interests. They were a part of the problem, not a part of the solution.
Yes, whom hid the Taliban leadership and Bin Laden for many years. They have always been the problem and should never have been part of the solution. Actually we should have left the USSR to sort the problem out in 1980 without interfering by making a hornets nest that bit us. Hindsight.
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2021, 00:49
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 67
Posts: 3,797
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by steamchicken View Post
does this chap have some evidence of the planning effort, or just a tweet it took a couple of seconds to send?
what do we think about his character seeing as this is what he finds to say when this is happening?
given the answer to the previous question, do we believe anything he says?
Are you suggesting that the handling of this 'evacuation' has been something other than an unmitigated cluster?
Because from what I've seen it looks like there was zero planning done - or at best any planning was completely incompetent. If possible, it may be even worse than Saigon.
Pretty amazing that we have been there for 20 years and yet still know so little about what was ultimately going to happen.
tdracer is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2021, 00:49
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
R/e AC-130s - there are actually a few there - at least one is the AC-130W Stinger - which tellingly - carries the AGM 136.
Designed for close air support in urban environments.
Personally, I think it'll be a miracle if they get everyone out without losing an aircraft to ground fire or a manpad, despite what the Taliban might say.
tartare is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2021, 01:15
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,290
Received 67 Likes on 34 Posts
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Yes, whom hid the Taliban leadership and Bin Laden for many years. They have always been the problem and should never have been part of the solution. Actually we should have left the USSR to sort the problem out in 1980 without interfering by making a hornets nest that bit us. Hindsight.
Hindsight is never flogging arms to any third world countries in the first place because it always comes back to bite you. Promise to defend them for a budget by all means, but dont supply or put weaponary into those countries.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2021, 01:25
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 4,255
Received 17 Likes on 6 Posts
This chap seems pretty upset…
Lima Juliet is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2021, 02:11
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 0
Received 47 Likes on 22 Posts
I have visions C-17s rolling down the runway with the top of the ac covered in passengers
The ending to RAFEng'svideo.

megan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.