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SEAC Vacancy Likely

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SEAC Vacancy Likely

Old 6th Jul 2021, 01:51
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SEAC Vacancy Likely

Daily Mail & The Sun have published so far - MOD Lines to Take being circulated on Twitter but comments attached not suitable for posting here. Comments on ARRSE already.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nted-help.html

Possible step up for the newly renamed Warrant Officer of the Royal Air Force [previously known as CASWO] ?


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Old 6th Jul 2021, 01:59
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Why does it keep calling him a major in the article, he is a WO1 Sgt Major.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrison_sergeant_major
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 02:30
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He was commissioned as a Late Entry Captain in 2013 and was then the Academy Sergeant Major at Sandhurst - since "promoted" to Major. He also has an OBE rather than an MBE. It is completely bizzare. He was even due to get a slot on the Advanced Command & Staff Course which was outrageous considering how many lt cdrs / majors / sqn ldrs miss out by a small margin each year.

Apparently there are quite a few Army LE commissioned officers continuing in WO1 gigs.

His current wiki is here which appears to have been hacked by someone - check out the rank !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Haughton
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 06:02
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The Garrison Sgt Maj and (I think) the RSM of the college at Sandhurst and (at least) another have special terms of service which mean that they serve for about 10 years, having given up their opportunity to be commissioned. However, part of the deal sees them actually holding a commission which is 'in suspension'.

It is said to be a huge jump from being 'top soldier' to being just another Lt/Capt etc. Some on this site will recall the RAF Regt WO Danny Gould (sp?) who was commissioned and I understand found it difficult to adjust fully - perhaps it's best to be top of the heap rather than halfway down the pile!

As to an attendance at Staff College, there is probably a good reason for that.

Old Duffer
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 07:02
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There was always disagreement in the Army as to who was the most senior WO1 in the organisation. The ACSM Sandhurst would lay claim, the GSM London District said it was him and certain WO1s in the RLC were appointed Conductors and when you looked into the history, it was the RLC Conductors that had seniority but the other 2 contenders struggled to accept it. In order to stop the arguments, a few years ago, a new appointment of Army Sgt. Major was created and from day one, he was officially the senior soldier.

As OD has said some of these positions are held by WO1s who have been commissioned but are still acting in senior WO1 posts.


Last edited by The Oberon; 6th Jul 2021 at 09:54.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 08:24
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Only the Army could have a 'Senior Enlisted' post where the first holder is actually a commissioned officer but wears the rank of a warrant officer...
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 10:59
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OD it was Danny Gourd.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 15:53
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Having read all the above it seems this chap is commissioned and will wear his backdated commissioned rank once he relinquishes this role - well probably not now. Is the RAF CASWO on the same terms, that is will he relinquish his WO and become a commissioned chap in the same the same as this chap? Or am I so far from the coal face and out of date now that I have got CASWO role and terms of service completely wrong?
Thread drift but it was always said the two worst things one could do was stealing from comrades and messing about with wives of your subordinates.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 16:59
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Originally Posted by Old-Duffer View Post
The Garrison Sgt Maj and (I think) the RSM of the college at Sandhurst and (at least) another have special terms of service which mean that they serve for about 10 years, having given up their opportunity to be commissioned. However, part of the deal sees them actually holding a commission which is 'in suspension'.

It is said to be a huge jump from being 'top soldier' to being just another Lt/Capt etc. Some on this site will recall the RAF Regt WO Danny Gould (sp?) who was commissioned and I understand found it difficult to adjust fully - perhaps it's best to be top of the heap rather than halfway down the pile!

As to an attendance at Staff College, there is probably a good reason for that.

Old Duffer
It certainly is, not least since those of us in dark or light blue would be very surprised to see the Warrant Officer of the Naval Service or the Chief of the Air Staff's Warrant Officer respectively being promoted to Lieutenant Commander or Squadron Leader apparently so quickly and on such a basis. Many thanks to OD for providing the background.

Jack
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 17:01
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So do you salute a commissioned none commissioned officer ? Which mess does he use?

The problem I see with that is by not relinquishing the rank on being commissioned he is depriving a NCO of attaining that rank.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:07
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Nutty, as his commission is ‘pending’, he’s just (dare I say that?) the Army’s top WO1, and not blocking anyone until he moves on/up/out officially.

Which sort of answers your first 2 questions, I suggest.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:26
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Again - note that CASWO was renamed Warrant Officer of the Royal Air Force on 1 Jul 21.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:29
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Nutty, as his commission is ‘pending’, he’s just (dare I say that?) the Army’s top WO1, and not blocking anyone until he moves on/up/out officially.

Which sort of answers your first 2 questions, I suggest.

ok….. so if it’s pending and thus he is not yet an officer, how can he then be promoted to major as he does not “hold” the rank
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:36
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Originally Posted by The Oberon View Post
There was always disagreement in the Army as to who was the most senior WO1 in the organisation. The ACSM Sandhurst would lay claim, the GSM London District said it was him and certain WO1s in the RLC were appointed Conductors and when you looked into the history, it was the RLC Conductors that had seniority but the other 2 contenders struggled to accept it. In order to stop the arguments, a few years ago, a new appointment of Army Sgt. Major was created and from day one, he was officially the senior soldier.

As OD has said some of these positions are held by WO1s who have been commissioned but are still acting in senior WO1 posts.
The seniority of conductors is and always was a myth, except that between 1879 and 1881 they were the ONLY Warrant officers. At various times since before Waterloo, Hospital Mates, Schoolmasters, cavalry Troop QMs and Master Gunners held army Warrants, issued on behalf of the Sovereign, in early days by Regimental Colonels, subsequently by a Secretary of State...

In 1881 a whole raft of the most senior NCOs including sergeant-majors were warranted, and the official top grouping was defined as alphabetical, thus Conductor looked senior. The conductor was always in this top bracket but seniority within that bracket was by date of promotion or appointment, and in practice was determined by who was the expert on the ground.

Since 1989, when the RA appointed "The RA Sergeant Major" with a special badge, there has been grade and badge inflation at an absurd, Disney-style pace, emulating the USA practice..

There are now two new, exalted strata among WO Class 1 in the army: They are The Army Command Sergeant Major, and a slack handful of Command Sergeant Majors, , one for each Corps and major grouping. All at this level hold LE commissions.

The Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chiefs of Staff could, in theory, be the RN or RAF equivalent of The Army Command Sergeant Major. I would not hold my breath .........
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:50
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
ok….. so if it’s pending and thus he is not yet an officer, how can he then be promoted to major as he does not “hold” the rank
Time in rank? Or rather Mark Time promotion?

My thanks to LB for the detailed update. As I have a friend in the USA who is a former Army Cmd Sgt Maj, I will decline to draw parallels!
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 19:27
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 View Post
Again - note that CASWO was renamed Warrant Officer of the Royal Air Force on 1 Jul 21.
A serving squadron leader I presume?
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 06:23
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Originally Posted by Just This Once... View Post
A serving squadron leader I presume?
I think you will find that W.O. RAF and his R.N. equivalent are still just W.O.s with no "hidden" commissions. I am not 100% sure, but I think that the RM Corps RSM is the same.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 09:11
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Originally Posted by The Oberon View Post
I think you will find that W.O. RAF and his R.N. equivalent are still just W.O.s with no "hidden" commissions. I am not 100% sure, but I think that the RM Corps RSM is the same.
Not being cheeky, but I think you will find that JTO was being facetious.....

Jack
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 12:05
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Is it a better pension thing? By my reckoning an OF3 would get a better pension than an OR9 after 25 years service? Or has that changed?
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 13:37
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Originally Posted by Union Jack View Post
Not being cheeky, but I think you will find that JTO was being facetious.....

Jack
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