UAP's....Real , threats, or just plain bunk?
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UAP's....Real , threats, or just plain bunk?
The US Government released an unclassified Report on its recent investigation into UAP's (for us old men that would be UFO's) and the potential threat to National Security they may pose and also suggested the UAP's may present a hazard to air navigation.
Of 144 incidents....the Task Force was able to confirm exactly one to be a delating large balloon (so says the Report)....all of the rest remain in the questioned category.
What does all of this portend for National Defense requirements for Western Nations?
What if they are actually break through technologies by Russia and/or China?
A bit far fetched perhaps....but what if it ain't from here on Earth that is behind these incidents?
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/docum...P-20210625.pdf
Of 144 incidents....the Task Force was able to confirm exactly one to be a delating large balloon (so says the Report)....all of the rest remain in the questioned category.
What does all of this portend for National Defense requirements for Western Nations?
What if they are actually break through technologies by Russia and/or China?
A bit far fetched perhaps....but what if it ain't from here on Earth that is behind these incidents?
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/docum...P-20210625.pdf
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There is a thread running in jet blast in case you don’t know.
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This is about possible National Security threats and potential breakthrough technology by non-Western powers.
Jet Blast is for non-technical discussions.
If we were talking about flying saucers or little green men...or alien kidnapping for medical experimentation.....that would be fit for Jet Blast and the quality of debate at that forum.
Jet Blast is for non-technical discussions.
If we were talking about flying saucers or little green men...or alien kidnapping for medical experimentation.....that would be fit for Jet Blast and the quality of debate at that forum.
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Ahhh ok, so you’re talking UAV’s then……
Go in peace…
Go in peace…
The rational approach, I suggest, is to keep an open mind. Galileo took a lot of stick and turned out to be correct.
Dare I say "the truth is out there", but would we recognise it as such if we saw it.?
Keep an open, but sceptical, mind.
Dare I say "the truth is out there", but would we recognise it as such if we saw it.?
Keep an open, but sceptical, mind.
L B I see "open minds" in many places.
I would like to see, perhaps, some more "enquiring minds"
Interestingly some misinterpreted meteorological phenomena have come to greater light in structured "UAP" analyses, including vertical "beams" of light in the extreme latitudes due to atmospheric refraction anomalies, as well of others such as the famous "sprites " (lightning type flashes going upwards, away from the ground ).
By critically examining the unknown ,information is often garnered into the known , as ever,in scientific rigour.
With all respect for your qualified opinion as ever.,
Haraka
I would like to see, perhaps, some more "enquiring minds"
Interestingly some misinterpreted meteorological phenomena have come to greater light in structured "UAP" analyses, including vertical "beams" of light in the extreme latitudes due to atmospheric refraction anomalies, as well of others such as the famous "sprites " (lightning type flashes going upwards, away from the ground ).
By critically examining the unknown ,information is often garnered into the known , as ever,in scientific rigour.
With all respect for your qualified opinion as ever.,
Haraka
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I’m open minded, but for someone to travel half way across the universe then not to say hi would be odd, well from a human point of view.
As for states using such vehicles I could totally believe it, didn’t the US do some experiments to see if their “UFO’s would be reported and how.
Incidentally I watched something on Sky last night about the bug in a US embassy for 7 years! and it was fascinating, see
https://hackaday.com/2015/12/08/theremins-bug/
As for states using such vehicles I could totally believe it, didn’t the US do some experiments to see if their “UFO’s would be reported and how.
Incidentally I watched something on Sky last night about the bug in a US embassy for 7 years! and it was fascinating, see
https://hackaday.com/2015/12/08/theremins-bug/
Thread Starter
The questions can be answered with enough investigation and research no doubt.
I suppose the first step is to determine as best possible exactly what IS being seen....and not just settle for a mere description.
If multi-sourced data is available....it seem linking the evidence that will confirm or deny the "seen" UAP's are either a naturally occurring phenomenon or being caused by a man-made cause.
The other possibility is what makes this such a challenge as we here on Earth take it for granted that we are gifted ones in all of Creation.
There is a lot of other places we can only hypothesize about that if they exist....our imagined importance is going to take a huge kick in the pants.
But...first let's examine each of these occurrences using ever means possible to see if we can find an acceptable scientific explanation for them.
I suppose the first step is to determine as best possible exactly what IS being seen....and not just settle for a mere description.
If multi-sourced data is available....it seem linking the evidence that will confirm or deny the "seen" UAP's are either a naturally occurring phenomenon or being caused by a man-made cause.
The other possibility is what makes this such a challenge as we here on Earth take it for granted that we are gifted ones in all of Creation.
There is a lot of other places we can only hypothesize about that if they exist....our imagined importance is going to take a huge kick in the pants.
But...first let's examine each of these occurrences using ever means possible to see if we can find an acceptable scientific explanation for them.
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Avoid imitations
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Most people similarly don’t believe in “Bigfoot/Sasquatch” or whatever. I’m not sure I do. But I do know that the existence of Mountain Gorillas wasn’t acknowledged by the western world until 1902.
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That wee helicopter thing on Mars is changing how we see that Planet...and that is Man Made.
Pretty amazing ain't it.
What if we are not the most advanced creatures in the Universe?
Let's apply our science to resolving these UAP events and perhaps settle the question of whether they are in fact explainable or not.
Pretty amazing ain't it.
What if we are not the most advanced creatures in the Universe?
Let's apply our science to resolving these UAP events and perhaps settle the question of whether they are in fact explainable or not.
Not a UAP story but It will show you how stories start and how credible and genuine observers may still be fooled. In the 70s, I was the First Officer of the Watch at a naval shore establishment in the UK. Around 2200, I was called by the guardroom to be told they thought the base might be under attack. When I got there, the duty staff said they were getting reports of an armoured vehicle firing at the base. That did not seem credible in darkest Hampshire, so I sent a team from the Duty Watch to the far end of the base, where the reports were coming from, to investigate and report back.
They confirmed there was a vehicle some distance outside the wire. They could not see it but they could hear it driving around across the fields and could see lights moving. More worryingly, they said they could hear short bursts of what sounded like heavy calibre gun fire. My first thought was a nearby Army camp might be having an exercise but a quick call eliminated that possibility. As whatever it was, was off base and there were no reports of damage or injuries, there was not much I could do - this was before the era of live-armed guards and the ROE at the time would have prevented me from arming the guard, let alone ordering them to shoot at an unidentified target.
Instead I rang the police, told them what has been seen and heard and where the vehicle was thought to be. Eventually, they called back to tell us it was a Land Rover full of slightly inebriated men out lamping for rabbits and the bursts of “heavy cal” were them blazing away with shotguns.
Now without that last sentence, the story would have been about credible military observers from a military base describing an attack, possibly by some form of “military” vehicle armed with heavy automatic weapons, which subsequently disappeared without trace and by now would a a “mystery”
They confirmed there was a vehicle some distance outside the wire. They could not see it but they could hear it driving around across the fields and could see lights moving. More worryingly, they said they could hear short bursts of what sounded like heavy calibre gun fire. My first thought was a nearby Army camp might be having an exercise but a quick call eliminated that possibility. As whatever it was, was off base and there were no reports of damage or injuries, there was not much I could do - this was before the era of live-armed guards and the ROE at the time would have prevented me from arming the guard, let alone ordering them to shoot at an unidentified target.
Instead I rang the police, told them what has been seen and heard and where the vehicle was thought to be. Eventually, they called back to tell us it was a Land Rover full of slightly inebriated men out lamping for rabbits and the bursts of “heavy cal” were them blazing away with shotguns.
Now without that last sentence, the story would have been about credible military observers from a military base describing an attack, possibly by some form of “military” vehicle armed with heavy automatic weapons, which subsequently disappeared without trace and by now would a a “mystery”
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For Nutty, in particular; but everyone, really...
If there is indeed intelligent life out there - the Drake equation tends towards zero, and may very well be zero - there exist only two alternatives, with one break point.
The Drake equation speaks to a technological civilization. For the sake of my argument, I have to introduce another factor which speaks to a technological civilization developing interstellar technology. Make it as small as you want: I make it really, really, really really small, but non-zero. Interstellar travel will be conducted over the course of hundreds of thousands generations, or on the basis of a new understanding of the universe.
So, for the sake of discussion, let's call my new equation Swan - or Goose, or Maverick - I don't care...
Remember, of course, that the terms at the left of the Drake equation are ineffably large. But, under any sort of rational examination, Drake yields an astonishingly large number in respect of the Milky Way, only.
Nevertheless, if:
1. pSwan = 0. No interstellar civilization. Go home. Be good to your family. Ask your religion of choice to explain why Heisenberg's Indeterminability Principle is so fundamentally built into the universe. Or buy a cat; Schrodinger had one, I believe.
2. pSwan > 0. Lots of interstellar civilization. And, by the certainty of probability, far in advance of what we can conceive.
- a. They're hostile. They've travelled across the universe using technology we can barely conceive. Dig your own grave, now, or call Will Smith and make a movie.
- b. They're peaceful. How would you announce your presence to a backward planetary civilization which only recently worked out that on-planet xenophobia wasn't necessarily a good thing, to speak nothing of off-planet xenophobia? Hint - Sagan's awful movie Cosmos, and/or a controlled release of evidence into the mainstream. Suitably fuzzy HUD pictures, anyone?
Application of The Razors - Occam's and Hanlon's - says we should be just as careful dismissing the simplistic arguments of social-media rationalism as we are dismissive of the tin-foil brigade. And, as we examine the possibility that we're not alone, Hitchens' Razor identifies the dilemma - no side can prove their case.
I don't instinctively understand statistics - do you? Hint - no-one does: which is why Monaco continues to be so rich on the basis of no intrinsic recommendatory qualities. I'd much rather prefer the beaches of the Sunshine Coast: right handers, and gentle for this gentleman's capabilities...
Look: I wear no foil hat - pointless in my case, anyways, as there are no brainwaves to shield - but the sheer size of the numbers tells me that we are not alone. The only question is whether we are alone, right now - and what we should be doing about it.
Science exists to be proven wrong. For your consideration...
The Drake equation speaks to a technological civilization. For the sake of my argument, I have to introduce another factor which speaks to a technological civilization developing interstellar technology. Make it as small as you want: I make it really, really, really really small, but non-zero. Interstellar travel will be conducted over the course of hundreds of thousands generations, or on the basis of a new understanding of the universe.
So, for the sake of discussion, let's call my new equation Swan - or Goose, or Maverick - I don't care...
Remember, of course, that the terms at the left of the Drake equation are ineffably large. But, under any sort of rational examination, Drake yields an astonishingly large number in respect of the Milky Way, only.
Nevertheless, if:
1. pSwan = 0. No interstellar civilization. Go home. Be good to your family. Ask your religion of choice to explain why Heisenberg's Indeterminability Principle is so fundamentally built into the universe. Or buy a cat; Schrodinger had one, I believe.
2. pSwan > 0. Lots of interstellar civilization. And, by the certainty of probability, far in advance of what we can conceive.
- a. They're hostile. They've travelled across the universe using technology we can barely conceive. Dig your own grave, now, or call Will Smith and make a movie.
- b. They're peaceful. How would you announce your presence to a backward planetary civilization which only recently worked out that on-planet xenophobia wasn't necessarily a good thing, to speak nothing of off-planet xenophobia? Hint - Sagan's awful movie Cosmos, and/or a controlled release of evidence into the mainstream. Suitably fuzzy HUD pictures, anyone?
Application of The Razors - Occam's and Hanlon's - says we should be just as careful dismissing the simplistic arguments of social-media rationalism as we are dismissive of the tin-foil brigade. And, as we examine the possibility that we're not alone, Hitchens' Razor identifies the dilemma - no side can prove their case.
I don't instinctively understand statistics - do you? Hint - no-one does: which is why Monaco continues to be so rich on the basis of no intrinsic recommendatory qualities. I'd much rather prefer the beaches of the Sunshine Coast: right handers, and gentle for this gentleman's capabilities...
Look: I wear no foil hat - pointless in my case, anyways, as there are no brainwaves to shield - but the sheer size of the numbers tells me that we are not alone. The only question is whether we are alone, right now - and what we should be doing about it.
Science exists to be proven wrong. For your consideration...
Thread Starter
During my formative youth the period between pimples and girls....I was exposed to number theory on a large black chalk board by a Math Teacher who used a chalked horizontal line drawn on said board....and explanations about "limits" among other topics germane to the discussion.
I did well with the small part of the scale....and easily grasped the infinitely close but not touching thing....but when we got to the other end of the line....where his comment about an ever expanding Universe...well I got tripped up proper like.
I had to ask....if our Universe was expanding.....just what was it that it was expanding into...to say his explanation failed to illuminate the ol' lightbulb in my wee brain is an understatement.
Short version....there is much I do not understand about all of this....there is science, math, physics and the like that are far beyond my ability to comprehend.....in addition to the mind of the female of the human species.
As the wise ol' Pelican avers....we are just one very small insignificant orb in a very big neighborhood and there is a lot to be learned yet.
I am still waiting for Steven Hawking to tell me if there is God with a thumb on the scale.
If some of these UAP's are in fact break through technologies and thus man made....as in all Weapon/Counter Weapon campaigns.....should we not be able to figure that out rather smartest as compared to identifying extra-terrestrial sources of the occurrences and thus resolve any National Security concerns?
I did well with the small part of the scale....and easily grasped the infinitely close but not touching thing....but when we got to the other end of the line....where his comment about an ever expanding Universe...well I got tripped up proper like.
I had to ask....if our Universe was expanding.....just what was it that it was expanding into...to say his explanation failed to illuminate the ol' lightbulb in my wee brain is an understatement.
Short version....there is much I do not understand about all of this....there is science, math, physics and the like that are far beyond my ability to comprehend.....in addition to the mind of the female of the human species.
As the wise ol' Pelican avers....we are just one very small insignificant orb in a very big neighborhood and there is a lot to be learned yet.
I am still waiting for Steven Hawking to tell me if there is God with a thumb on the scale.
If some of these UAP's are in fact break through technologies and thus man made....as in all Weapon/Counter Weapon campaigns.....should we not be able to figure that out rather smartest as compared to identifying extra-terrestrial sources of the occurrences and thus resolve any National Security concerns?
During my formative youth the period between pimples and girls....I was exposed to number theory on a large black chalk board by a Math Teacher who used a chalked horizontal line drawn on said board....and explanations about "limits" among other topics germane to the discussion.
I did well with the small part of the scale....and easily grasped the infinitely close but not touching thing....but when we got to the other end of the line....where his comment about an ever expanding Universe...well I got tripped up proper like.
I had to ask....if our Universe was expanding.....just what was it that it was expanding into...to say his explanation failed to illuminate the ol' lightbulb in my wee brain is an understatement.
Short version....there is much I do not understand about all of this....there is science, math, physics and the like that are far beyond my ability to comprehend.....in addition to the mind of the female of the human species.
As the wise ol' Pelican avers....we are just one very small insignificant orb in a very big neighborhood and there is a lot to be learned yet.
I am still waiting for Steven Hawking to tell me if there is God with a thumb on the scale.
If some of these UAP's are in fact break through technologies and thus man made....as in all Weapon/Counter Weapon campaigns.....should we not be able to figure that out rather smartest as compared to identifying extra-terrestrial sources of the occurrences and thus resolve any National Security concerns?
I did well with the small part of the scale....and easily grasped the infinitely close but not touching thing....but when we got to the other end of the line....where his comment about an ever expanding Universe...well I got tripped up proper like.
I had to ask....if our Universe was expanding.....just what was it that it was expanding into...to say his explanation failed to illuminate the ol' lightbulb in my wee brain is an understatement.
Short version....there is much I do not understand about all of this....there is science, math, physics and the like that are far beyond my ability to comprehend.....in addition to the mind of the female of the human species.
As the wise ol' Pelican avers....we are just one very small insignificant orb in a very big neighborhood and there is a lot to be learned yet.
I am still waiting for Steven Hawking to tell me if there is God with a thumb on the scale.
If some of these UAP's are in fact break through technologies and thus man made....as in all Weapon/Counter Weapon campaigns.....should we not be able to figure that out rather smartest as compared to identifying extra-terrestrial sources of the occurrences and thus resolve any National Security concerns?
The questions can be answered with enough investigation and research no doubt.
I suppose the first step is to determine as best possible exactly what IS being seen....and not just settle for a mere description.
If multi-sourced data is available....it seem linking the evidence that will confirm or deny the "seen" UAP's are either a naturally occurring phenomenon or being caused by a man-made cause.
The other possibility is what makes this such a challenge as we here on Earth take it for granted that we are gifted ones in all of Creation.
There is a lot of other places we can only hypothesize about that if they exist....our imagined importance is going to take a huge kick in the pants.
But...first let's examine each of these occurrences using ever means possible to see if we can find an acceptable scientific explanation for them.
I suppose the first step is to determine as best possible exactly what IS being seen....and not just settle for a mere description.
If multi-sourced data is available....it seem linking the evidence that will confirm or deny the "seen" UAP's are either a naturally occurring phenomenon or being caused by a man-made cause.
The other possibility is what makes this such a challenge as we here on Earth take it for granted that we are gifted ones in all of Creation.
There is a lot of other places we can only hypothesize about that if they exist....our imagined importance is going to take a huge kick in the pants.
But...first let's examine each of these occurrences using ever means possible to see if we can find an acceptable scientific explanation for them.
There has not ever been a real full spectrum investigation afaik, although that is clearly the way forward.
Even the recent Navy aviator reports with the IR sensor video just have the pilot accounts, nothing from the other resources that surround any Navy exercise.
The performances reported are really incompatible with any human artifact, huge accelerations to hypersonic, hovering, right angle turns and submergence are not in the cards, even theoretically..
That suggests some kind of sensor error or some novel electromagnetic phenomenon, sort of a super ball lightening.
Given that the atmosphere produces really peculiar effects such as long, meandering tornadoes, I'd want to eliminate those possibilities first.