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HMS Defender

Old 25th Jun 2021, 20:26
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
It's nothing new. They did much the same thing in 2018 when HMS Duncan was on a similar patrol. Plenty of clips on You tube.
And a full-on BBC documentary series. The RN have been taking journalists and TV crews on deployments for as long as I can remember, so that's not new either.

Originally Posted by NAROBS
The game play would go
Just make sure you don't shoot down the wrong aircraft (again).
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Old 25th Jun 2021, 20:41
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
You have to laugh though. One is spouting complete gibberish and the other is claiming expertise in naval strategy from Switzerland.
Well there is the letter of the law for the naval strategists


Innocent passage

I think even the most jingoist of our esteemed contributors will agree that this event was a far cry from this definition. But does anyone seriously think to the contrary ?
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Old 25th Jun 2021, 21:05
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by atakacs
Well there is the letter of the law for the naval strategists


Innocent passage

I think even the most jingoist of our esteemed contributors will agree that this event was a far cry from this definition. But does anyone seriously think to the contrary ?
Sod off Sergei. Nothing in 19.2 was applicable. You might want to examine 25.3.

Or better still, keep whispering "Rodina stronk" to yourself and stroke that poster of Vlad by your desk. It'll be over soon.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 09:50
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Your link points to a 'United States Naval Institute' news article which denies that the whole incident happened at all, claiming the NATO ships never left port in Odessa, and that ASI data showing the fleet approaching to 2NM from the entrance of the Russian Fleets home port was falsified. I'll bet the CIA produced the necessary evidence.
Yet the BBC website (international purveyors of truth in the media) states: "A BBC correspondent on the warship said it was harassed by Russia's military. Aircraft could be heard overhead as BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale filed a report from the deck of HMS Defender in the Black Sea" adding " HMS Defender was sailing from Odessa in southern Ukraine to Georgia. To get there, it passed south of the Crimea peninsula....". So they did sail, and the ASI data was correct, justifying the Russian response - and disproving the 'Innocent Passage' claims. And showing the USNI is full of it......

As to my own comments here - I don't really feel the need to justify my position. But I'll add a few points for info.
First of all - I followed the link to this thread from JetBlast and only later discovered the thread is in fact hosted on the Military Forum - a forum I have zero interest in usually as I'm not a military man and don't like echo chambers. Truth be told I don't frequent PPRuNe itself much these days, ever since the new forum software ruined it (and I hung up my wings anyway).

Next - I am a British citizen. Furthermore members of my family died for Britain - God help them. My Great Uncle was an RN seaman on HMS Aboukir when it was sunk in 1914. Look it up. In the English Channel no less....defending right of passage I suppose. He still lies at the bottom there, with 1,500 of his brothers in arms.

What galls me is that while the modern RN are off coat trailing in places they have no business to be, they are also back in the Channel escorting the people traffickers dinghy's full of economic migrants and landing them on the shores of the UK (in the midst of a pandemic) where they proceed to fan out and join their Western Christian hating brethren, and cheer on the jihadists who blow up your children. RN escorted into the UK, right over the graves of those men of 1914.
But you don't see any of this as contradictory.
I see one of those 'migrants' launched a knife attack on his German hosts just yesterday - killing three innocents on the spot and wounding several more, yet it's hardly in the news today. No mention of it on the Sky breakfast news I watched this morning.

The MSM protect their Leftist neo Marxist LGBTQ Jihadist BLM ANTIFA agenda, to the extreme detriment of the native people and culture of your nation. This is what my Great Uncle and his shipmates gave their lives for. What a shame.

You don't hear much of these kind of attacks and general societal breakdown in Russia. Putin has refused to play along with this New World Order and is strengthening the last bastion of defense of Western Christendom. More power to him.

I see the French military (unlike you pussies) have the balls to recognise this and speak out about what they see going on in their nation. They have warned Macron that a revolution is brewing in France over this crap. They were denounced by the French Government and told to shut up - military men are not allowed such opinions. Which begs the question - what are you Brits doing expressing opinions in public about international relations? Isn't there some rule about that in HM Forces?
Anyway, you have your orders. Keep poking at those nasty Russians.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 10:42
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Killaroo
Your link points to a 'United States Naval Institute' news article which denies that the whole incident happened at all, claiming the NATO ships never left port in Odessa, and that ASI data showing the fleet approaching to 2NM from the entrance of the Russian Fleets home port was falsified. I'll bet the CIA produced the necessary evidence.
Yet the BBC website (international purveyors of truth in the media) states: "A BBC correspondent on the warship said it was harassed by Russia's military. Aircraft could be heard overhead as BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale filed a report from the deck of HMS Defender in the Black Sea" adding " HMS Defender was sailing from Odessa in southern Ukraine to Georgia. To get there, it passed south of the Crimea peninsula....". So they did sail, and the ASI data was correct, justifying the Russian response - and disproving the 'Innocent Passage' claims. And showing the USNI is full of it.......
Why are you conflating two entirely separate ‘incidents’?

a. The falsification of AIS tracks of HNLMS EVERTSEN and HMS DEFENDER from Odessa to Sevastopol on Fri 18/Sat 19 Jun despite the easily verified fact that they were berthed alongside in Odessa for the weekend.

b. The innocent passage of HMS DEFENDER off the south coast of Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea on Wed 23 June while en route from Odessa to Georgia.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 13:14
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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One of the best things about threads like this is playing "spot the sock puppet", but also (given spotting them is often all too easy) seeing the tactics they use - including, but not limited to, using the internet to create a "credible" backstory and then inviting readers to check the internet to prove its veracity. Neat.

I guess despite the sizeable superannuated element on here, the potential that even some some serving folk might lurk and read as well as post makes it an especially tempting target. Whenever I see posts that are especially corrosive in relation to UK policy, and which clearly seek to chip away at how people think about it, I stroke the imaginary beard and think hmmm....

None of which is to say that the UK approach doesn't often warrant perfectly valid criticism from the many genuine folk on here. That just adds to the interest of the "spot the sock puppet" game...
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 13:23
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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True it is entertaining. However a bit shocking how this sort of warfare crept into everyday life. I like all those biographic and location details the most. And then they give it all away.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 15:39
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Missing your point. So how was it prejudicial?
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 15:42
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First its like "I am a westener like you" and then it moves on to what the central committee's, or whatever they listen to, menu du jour.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 16:56
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pasta
And a full-on BBC documentary series. The RN have been taking journalists and TV crews on deployments for as long as I can remember, so that's not new either.
Who can forget 'Sailor'. "We are sailing, we are sailing.............."
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 17:05
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FODPlod
Why are you conflating two entirely separate ‘incidents’?
Because the poster of the USNI link intended exactly that.

Originally Posted by Frostchamber
None of which is to say that the UK approach doesn't often warrant perfectly valid criticism from the many genuine folk on here. That just adds to the interest of the "spot the sock puppet" game...
If ya can't get the ball get the man, eh?
Got nothing to say but rubbish.

Originally Posted by Less Hair
First its like "I am a westener like you" and then it moves on to what the central committee's, or whatever they listen to, menu du jour.
....and again.

You lot seem to think all Westerners should join lockstep and salute whatever the lying MSM runs up the flagpole. Here's the News - the West is full of free thinking individuals who don't buy this patent spin and propaganda.
Leave Russia and Putin alone. Go look after your own back yard.
Oh - and free Julian Assange!
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 17:46
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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His pericombobulations are quite spectacular. We should all be frasmotic and even compunctuous to have caused them.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 18:17
  #93 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
His pericombobulations are quite spectacular. We should all be frasmotic and even compunctuous to have caused them.
Couldn't of put it better myself.

I heard that the RN is open to offers on Prince of Wales btw
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 18:40
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Originally Posted by Navaleye
Couldn't of put it better myself.

I heard that the RN is open to offers on Prince of Wales btw
Not the sort of offers that involve soiling Wellington's? That would be most inadvisable.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 20:51
  #95 (permalink)  
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Sir Humphrey…

https://tinyurl.com/yu4s9tcy

Defending the Truth - The Royal Navy & Russia
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 20:51
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Whoever faked the track of the Defender group was hopelessly unbelievable, 3 foreign warships approaching within 2 miles of a major base, they would have been warned off at 10 miles real shots across the bow any closer. That aside, tactically the Black Sea is not a place to be if hostilities do start where you are out gunned and out maneuvered, don’t poke the Russian bear.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 23:03
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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The Russian Bear, mangy and short of fuels, spares and expertise, has been poking away at UK airspace for many years.

Rattle its cage in a calculated way, and see if the bear is emasculated.

Wind and Piss, like the barber's cat, for most part.
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 09:05
  #98 (permalink)  
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" It would be inappropriate to comment "....well quite, although you get the impression somebody will be doing quite a lot of commenting very soon.

Very revealing.

Classified Ministry of Defence documents found at bus stop - BBC News
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 09:29
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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I'd normally choose cock-up over conspiracy, but the release of the Defender route plan and associated considerations does seem remarkably well timed and helpful to the intended narrative... almost like someone wants to keep the story and the legal position in the news. If so it's doubly clever as it will get attention from those at home and abroad who thrive on stories of UK cock-ups, who will be drawn into reading the explanation of the Russian encounter and will no doubt be frustrated at the lack of mention of "poking the bear". The other reported contents seem fairly anodyne; I guess the material the BBC chose to withhold might give more of a clue as to whether this was an "accident". Also, who uses printed material these days, anyway?!

Last edited by Easy Street; 27th Jun 2021 at 09:43.
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 09:50
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
" It would be inappropriate to comment "....well quite, although you get the impression somebody will be doing quite a lot of commenting very soon.

Very revealing.

Classified Ministry of Defence documents found at bus stop - BBC News
And there it is, in black and white. A coat trailing exercise.
Maybe I should say Petty Coat. (pun intended).

Free Julian Assange!
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