Further consideration of Irish Air Defence
The reality is a QRA force has less than 10% public support in Ireland because of the cost, it would be hugely detrimental to whichever government brought it in. The Irish defense forces are losing personnel in droves because the Ts & Cs are terrible. There's at least 2 naval vessels tied up because there aren't enough crews to operate them, and there's often no fixed wing medical/SAR availability because either there aren't enough flight crews or military controllers to be on call. These issues need to be fixed first.
Then there's other issues within those proposals put forward in the white paper, much of this proposed force's operations would be over the stormy NAT, in winter. Is putting them out there in a single engine Grippen or second hand F16 too risky, or should we really be looking at more expensive twin engine platforms?
I have no doubt Uncle Sam would give us very competitive pricing and support on F15/16/18 platforms, but the opposition from Joe Public to any cost of any Fighter from any nation is the elephant in the room.
No arguments from me there. My point was in response to the risk of them colliding with civilian traffic as a result of implied illegal activity by operating + or - 500ft of civilian traffic, which isn't breaking any rules. I've seen a few cases of military traffic busting separation minima with civilian traffic, none involved the Russians.
The reality is a QRA force has less than 10% public support in Ireland because of the cost, it would be hugely detrimental to whichever government brought it in. The Irish defense forces are losing personnel in droves because the Ts & Cs are terrible. There's at least 2 naval vessels tied up because there aren't enough crews to operate them, and there's often no fixed wing medical/SAR availability because either there aren't enough flight crews or military controllers to be on call. These issues need to be fixed first.
Then there's other issues within those proposals put forward in the white paper, much of this proposed force's operations would be over the stormy NAT, in winter. Is putting them out there in a single engine Grippen or second hand F16 too risky, or should we really be looking at more expensive twin engine platforms?
I have no doubt Uncle Sam would give us very competitive pricing and support on F15/16/18 platforms, but the opposition from Joe Public to any cost of any Fighter from any nation is the elephant in the room.
The reality is a QRA force has less than 10% public support in Ireland because of the cost, it would be hugely detrimental to whichever government brought it in. The Irish defense forces are losing personnel in droves because the Ts & Cs are terrible. There's at least 2 naval vessels tied up because there aren't enough crews to operate them, and there's often no fixed wing medical/SAR availability because either there aren't enough flight crews or military controllers to be on call. These issues need to be fixed first.
Then there's other issues within those proposals put forward in the white paper, much of this proposed force's operations would be over the stormy NAT, in winter. Is putting them out there in a single engine Grippen or second hand F16 too risky, or should we really be looking at more expensive twin engine platforms?
I have no doubt Uncle Sam would give us very competitive pricing and support on F15/16/18 platforms, but the opposition from Joe Public to any cost of any Fighter from any nation is the elephant in the room.
Methinks you may have an agenda here...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
No arguments from me there. My point was in response to the risk of them colliding with civilian traffic as a result of implied illegal activity by operating + or - 500ft of civilian traffic, which isn't breaking any rules. I've seen a few cases of military traffic busting separation minima with civilian traffic, none involved the Russians.
No implication of illegality, just risk. I accept the arguments against fighters but believe primary 3D radar would be prudent.
Again over 25 years ago, but I’ve been controlling fighters trailing Bears down the North Sea IMC at FL360 and had to call LATCC to advise them that they had non-squawking traffic 30nm north southbound on a collision co-alt and avoiding action was advisable.
(The first response was that “I have priority get them to turn - who’ controlling them anyway!”. To which my reply was that I wasn’t sure, but probably Moscow….
If I have a comparable situation in the past it was the Cyprus FIR back in the mid 1970s where we monitored and provided a radar advisory service for numerous friendly NATO recce/ESM aircraft monitoring the various wars and areas of interest in the eastern Med and observed all the other aircraft operating in the same area.
Nicosia at the time provided a procedural service and we’re blissfully unaware of all of them. The day they switched on their first radar they just about cr***ed themselves and the telephone line between us was heavily used fir a few weeks whilst they became aware of who was who and what they were doing.
and there's often no fixed wing medical/SAR availability because either there aren't enough flight crews or military controllers to be on call. These issues need to be fixed first.
Joint Squadron? Could RoI part-fund a QRA squadron, and provide people as well? I'm sure some of the IAC guys could qualify as fast-jet pilots? Use the infrastructure already in place for Typhoon, but get a sensible contribution from Dublin, and make it bilateral. (And as an NI resident, I reckon ex-RAF Aldergrove would be an ideal location!!)
UDT,
No implication of illegality, just risk. I accept the arguments against fighters but believe primary 3D radar would be prudent.
Again over 25 years ago, but I’ve been controlling fighters trailing Bears down the North Sea IMC at FL360 and had to call LATCC to advise them that they had non-squawking traffic 30nm north southbound on a collision co-alt and avoiding action was advisable.
(The first response was that “I have priority get them to turn - who’ controlling them anyway!”. To which my reply was that I wasn’t sure, but probably Moscow….
If I have a comparable situation in the past it was the Cyprus FIR back in the mid 1970s where we monitored and provided a radar advisory service for numerous friendly NATO recce/ESM aircraft monitoring the various wars and areas of interest in the eastern Med and observed all the other aircraft operating in the same area.
Nicosia at the time provided a procedural service and we’re blissfully unaware of all of them. The day they switched on their first radar they just about cr***ed themselves and the telephone line between us was heavily used fir a few weeks whilst they became aware of who was who and what they were doing.
No implication of illegality, just risk. I accept the arguments against fighters but believe primary 3D radar would be prudent.
Again over 25 years ago, but I’ve been controlling fighters trailing Bears down the North Sea IMC at FL360 and had to call LATCC to advise them that they had non-squawking traffic 30nm north southbound on a collision co-alt and avoiding action was advisable.
(The first response was that “I have priority get them to turn - who’ controlling them anyway!”. To which my reply was that I wasn’t sure, but probably Moscow….
If I have a comparable situation in the past it was the Cyprus FIR back in the mid 1970s where we monitored and provided a radar advisory service for numerous friendly NATO recce/ESM aircraft monitoring the various wars and areas of interest in the eastern Med and observed all the other aircraft operating in the same area.
Nicosia at the time provided a procedural service and we’re blissfully unaware of all of them. The day they switched on their first radar they just about cr***ed themselves and the telephone line between us was heavily used fir a few weeks whilst they became aware of who was who and what they were doing.
And yes nighttime medivac is privately operated ex DUB, because it was outsourced after the IAC could no longer do it due lack of manpower.
And yes nighttime medivac is privately operated ex DUB, because it was outsourced after the IAC could no longer do it due lack of manpower.
As would Sinn Féin, who oppose investment in the Irish Military or the collaboration of the defence forces with other services around the world
The Irish Defence Forces are officially known as Óglaigh na hÉireann in Irish. The name has historical resonance, being first used by the Irish Volunteers in 1913, the group being formed in response to the Ulster Covenant of 1912 and creation of the armed Ulster Volunteers as a militia to oppose Home Rule. Since the foundation of the State in 1922 every flavour of the IRA has styled itself using the name and even this year there has been elected members of Sinn Féin who have refused to distance themselves from the use of the tile for their ‘comrades’.
WRT patient transfer, the Lear 45, CASA 235's and AW 139's are used and I beleive the PC-12's are or will be.
JAS
The Irish Defence Forces are officially known as Óglaigh na hÉireann in Irish. The name has historical resonance, being first used by the Irish Volunteers in 1913, the group being formed in response to the Ulster Covenant of 1912 and creation of the armed Ulster Volunteers as a militia to oppose Home Rule. Since the foundation of the State in 1922 every flavour of the IRA has styled itself using the name and even this year there has been elected members of Sinn Féin who have refused to distance themselves from the use of the tile for their ‘comrades’.
WRT patient transfer, the Lear 45, CASA 235's and AW 139's are used and I beleive the PC-12's are or will be.
JAS
Last edited by Just a spotter; 26th Jun 2021 at 12:46.
