NI soldiers aquitted

[NutLoose]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56942056

The trial opened last Monday and heard a day of evidence before moving to the issue of whether statements and interviews given by the ex-soldiers would be admissible.

The court was told that evidence implicating the soldiers came from two sources - statements given to the Royal Military Police in 1972 and interview answers given to the HET in 2010.

The PPS accepted that the 1972 statements would be inadmissible in isolation, due to deficiencies in how they were taken including that the soldiers were ordered to make them and they were not conducted under caution.

However, prosecutors argued that the information in the 1972 statements became admissible because they were adopted and accepted by the defendants during their engagement with the HET in March 2010.

However, the judge said it was not legitimate to put the 1972 evidence before the court "dressed up and freshened up with a new 2010 cover".

He questioned why the HET's re-examination did not prompt a fresh investigation by the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), with the veterans interviewed under caution.

The judge suggested that course of action might have made a prosecution more sustainable.

[charliegolf]

Hopefully, the CPS, Historic Crimes Lot et al, will see no prospects of a conviction anywhere else as a result of this judgement.

CG

[NutLoose]

Both soldiers were interviewed by a police legacy unit, the Historical Enquiries Team (HET), in 2010 and it was this evidence that formed a substantial part of the prosecution's case.

The judge ruled this evidence as inadmissible and the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) on Tuesday confirmed it would not appeal against that decision, meaning the case could not proceed.

After the prosecution confirmed it would be presenting no further evidence in the case, the judge told both former soldiers: "In the circumstances Mr A and C I formally find you not guilty of the charge of murder."

Agreed CG, I read that as unless you come up with new evidence in any future cases, don't bother.


..

[Asturias56]

It'll come round again in 5 years - these things always do - it suits too many people to let it lie.

If the Americans/Turks/Armenians can get worked up 110 years after events this one still has years to run.

[Training Risky]

Good news for veterans...makes a change!

I'll keep an eye out over the next 50 years for Snowdrops or Monkeys with nothing better to do, walking up my garden path to question me over 'historic crimes' for my tiny part in Telic and Herrick!

[Two's in]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

It'll come round again in 5 years - these things always do - it suits too many people to let it lie.

If the Americans/Turks/Armenians can get worked up 110 years after events this one still has years to run.

Unlike Turkey, nobody has ever claimed the NI "troubles" simply did not happen, or that the 3,500 lives lost during that period were largely "self-inflicted".

The Armenians and many other nations are "worked up" that the Ottoman Empire slaughtered over 1 million civilians and have continued to deny that fact for over 100 years. Not only do they deny it, but they blame the Armenians for their own demise, all because the Turkish State was founded on the displacement and slaughter of these people during WW1. To accept the truth would lay bare the lie of how the Turkish state was formed, so it's not going to happen. But denying something doesn't stop it being an unpalatable fact of life.

Not quite apples and apples here.

[DHC4]

Do you think we will ever get the truth around the level of collusion between paramilitary organisations and the state forces, when you look at the Miami Showband massacre and what happened in Ballymurphy. These were totally innocent people who were murdered and yet no one is going to be held accountable, Stephen Travers is a good guy and he has spent his life after the murder of his band mates trying to get the truth. It can’t be that hard to release the documents, unless there is something to hide.

[Asturias56]

Two's in - I have Armenian relatives - I hear the story regularly. My point is that Armenians still bear an enormous grudge against Turkey after 100 years - I'm sure the same happen with some people in N Ireland

[Asturias56]

"Do you think we will ever get the truth around the level of collusion between paramilitary organisations and the state forces,"

I doubt it - far too sensitive

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

"Do you think we will ever get the truth around the level of collusion between paramilitary organisations and the state forces,"

I doubt it - far too sensitive

Far too much embarrassment and blood on the hands of the British government

[Two's in]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

Two's in - I have Armenian relatives - I hear the story regularly. My point is that Armenians still bear an enormous grudge against Turkey after 100 years - I'm sure the same happen with some people in N Ireland

Well, given the Battle of the Boyne was in 1690, I think yours is a safe prediction.

[Geordie_Expat]

Originally Posted by kendrick47247

Far too much embarrassment and blood on the hands of the British government

For someone who lives in London, you really spend a lot of time slagging off Britain and the British.

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by Geordie_Expat

For someone who lives in London, you really spend a lot of time slagging off Britain and the British.

Please let me know my new address so I can update others

[NutLoose]

Your location says London.
Of course that could be

London, England, a city in the United Kingdom
London, Ontario, a city in Canada
London, Belize, a village
London, Equatorial Guinea, a village
London, Finland, a section of Jakobstad
London, Kiribati, a small city on Kiritimati
London, Nigeria, a village
London, Limpopo, a village in South Africa
London, Mpumalanga (Noordprovincie) in South Africa
London, Mpumalanga (Graskop) in South Africa

In the United States:
London, Conecuh County, Alabama, an unincorporated community
London, Montgomery County, Alabama, an unincorporated community
London, Arizona, an unincorporated community
London, Arkansas, a city
London, California, a census-designated place
London, Indiana, an unincorporated community
London, Kentucky, a city
London, Michigan, an unincorporated community
London, Minnesota, an unincorporated community
London, Missouri, an unincorporated community
London, Ohio, a city
London, Richland County, Ohio, an unincorporated community
London, Oregon, an unincorporated community
London, Pennsylvania, an unincorporated community
London, Tennessee, an unincorporated community
London, Texas, an unincorporated community
London, West Virginia, an unincorporated community
London, Wisconsin, an unincorporated community

.

https://www.funtrivia.com/askft/question65328.html

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

Your location says London.
Of course that could be:-

.

https://www.funtrivia.com/askft/question65328.html

Haha! Good shout, I was unaware of the location on here.

Got a laugh from me NutLoose

[NutLoose]

It's in the bar on the left under your name

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

It's in the bar on the left under your name

Must be a desktop v mobile quirk

[DHC4]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56986784

John Teggart, son of Daniel Teggart, said: "I want to speak directly to the people of Britain at this moment. Can you imagine what would happen if the British soldiers murdered 10 unarmed civilians on the streets of London, Liverpool or Birmingham?

"What would you expect, an investigation? Would you expect justice? Or would you be happy for them to get an amnesty?"

[jayteeto]

The news didn’t really report the fact that the soldiers were under fire from the IRA that day.
I also think that there would be less arguments if the IRA members had not been given amnesty letters. Things have to be balanced for justice to take place

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by jayteeto

The news didn’t really report the fact that the soldiers were under fire from the IRA that day.
I also think that there would be less arguments if the IRA members had not been given amnesty letters. Things have to be balanced for justice to take place

“She acknowledged the Army was coming under fire from gunmen in the area at the time, but she concluded the use of force against the deceased was "clearly disproportionate".
She said they were innocent, unarmed and were "posing no risk." “

I took that from the same article that was linked...

What should the defence for the soldiers be then? Inability to differentiate between enemy and civilians?
Pretty poor of the British army to have sent them to a war zone when they weren’t adequately prepared then.

”deceased were unarmed and were not acting in any way of threat. No arms were found on or near the deceased and there was no evidence of gunshot residue that satisfied evidential standards," Mrs Justice Keegan said.”