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JP233

Old 13th Apr 2021, 15:57
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What fascinated me were the special to type loaders, IIRC in the form of hovercraft, which allowed for the limited ground clearance under the fuselage......
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Old 13th Apr 2021, 16:28
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
What fascinated me were the special to type loaders, IIRC in the form of hovercraft, which allowed for the limited ground clearance under the fuselage......
The Type Z Weapon Loader

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Old 14th Apr 2021, 14:53
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The infamous "Z" Loader,probably a good idea on paper, or a nice clean smooth floor, but in the real world of uneven, rutted and sand encrusted concrete on the HAS and sun shelter floors of Dharhran, they were utterly useless. Only ever used it in the sand storm generator mode the once, after that I just lugged it around on the castors.

The JP233 was also fairly easy to defeat, simply by having any peasant with a gun to fire it into the air over the airfield and approaches and let the crews fly through it...
Teej...

Last edited by teej013; 14th Apr 2021 at 14:55. Reason: Spellin' and gradma
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 19:26
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The JP233 was also fairly easy to defeat, simply by having any peasant with a gun to fire it into the air over the airfield and approaches and let the crews fly through it...
Teej...
Didn't stop us. If you were a Dharhan man, you will, of course know that.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 17:06
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There are a lot of myths & misconceptions kicking around about the employment and effects of the JP233 in GW1, and some of the losses experienced during those ops.
Although I (clearly) wasn't around at the time, over the last 12 months I've been speaking to many of the crews involved in the first 3 nights of JP233 ops back in Jan 1991 for my new book (shameless plug) and - unless of course you were there - you might be surprised at the recollections. Truly astonishing feats of combat aviation.
I've also got a VHS video taken at one of the Iraqi sites a couple of days after the ceasefire showing some of the damage and repairs. And a couple of interesting US satellite images too; unseen at the time I understand. But as I say, I can't confirm as was otherwise engaged.

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Old 15th Apr 2021, 17:19
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Pre-ordered just now, John, you rascal! 👍
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 16:45
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
Pre-ordered just now, John, you rascal! 👍
Same here.

John, you must owe me a beer by now! Next Feb maybe?
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 17:56
  #28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post
.....for the ground offensive Gen Shwarzkopf was redploying the Army to the W to enter Iraq and carry out the hook to cut off the Iraqi forces in Kuwait. But he needed to do the redeployment quickly and in secret and to achieve that he needed to keep the Iraqi AF on the ground,.
Are you sure about that? I thought the redeployment was in advance of any action.

I remember watching TV broadcasts from 'somewhere in the desert but I can't tell you where'. The idiot broadcaster (BBC) was grinning like a Cheshire cat in front of a shop with the town name on it and Hercs were using the runway behind him. It could have been IRAFHA but that is much a guess.

Once the air offensive began then the media switched their focus.
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 20:25
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Originally Posted by just another jocky View Post
Same here.

John, you must owe me a beer by now! Next Feb maybe?
and again.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 16:58
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Originally Posted by John Nichol View Post
There are a lot of myths & misconceptions kicking around about the employment and effects of the JP233 in GW1, and some of the losses experienced during those ops.
Although I (clearly) wasn't around at the time, over the last 12 months I've been speaking to many of the crews involved in the first 3 nights of JP233 ops back in Jan 1991 for my new book (shameless plug) and - unless of course you were there - you might be surprised at the recollections. Truly astonishing feats of combat aviation.
I've also got a VHS video taken at one of the Iraqi sites a couple of days after the ceasefire showing some of the damage and repairs. And a couple of interesting US satellite images too; unseen at the time I understand. But as I say, I can't confirm as was otherwise engaged.
Just had an email from Waterstones that my pre-order is ready to collect. Looking forward to this one.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 17:06
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Hope you enjoy it!

It's always tricky to tell other people's stories but initial feedback from a few chums - and their loved ones back home - who were involved, and draft-read the manuscript for me, seem to suggest I haven't made any terrible bloopers.

That said.... no doubt a few PPRuNe experts might disagree. We shall see!


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Old 10th Jun 2021, 21:44
  #32 (permalink)  
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Really looking forward to reading it.

John, Is there any plans to make any of your recent your books into talking books? Especially this one?
I think I had a copy of Tornado Down on tape once.

Also, as an aside.
For the nighttime missions - were the Mauser cannons loaded with ammunition? and if so what might you have used it on?
I'd have thought better to have the (lack of) weight

TR
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 06:32
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Hi Type, Almost all of my books are available as audio books - just have a look on Amazon.

The loads changed as the ops changed (and the 3 separate Dets also sometimes diverged) but certainly on the first few nights the guns were fully fuelled.
Indeed, on night 2 or 3 Steve Barnes took umbrage at a AAA site trying to kill him as they flew in towards an Iraqi airfield at 540kts & 200ft so he selected TOO and hosed the position down with HE.
Anyone who has ever used the guns at night (the flash/flame rather tends to envelope the cockpit) will understand what an abject and truly unpleasant shock this was to Charley Barley in the back seat who was head in looking for the offsets as they were in the midst of the attack run. Halcyon days indeed.


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Old 11th Jun 2021, 11:34
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My copy arrived today. Perfect timing for the sunny days ahead and a good read sat in the garden.
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 11:58
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Hope you enjoy it and I look forward to the debrief...............!
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 15:52
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The first aircraft to use JP233 in anger I believe? Jerry Witts mount for the first raid, ZD843. My photo of her, looking at the repair Bernie James did for the big hole on the front. I repaired the hole in the cockpit floor. The badly damaged jet from the night raid of the 24th of Janunary 91 from Dhahran. Was on the ABDR teams that got her back to be a war goer. The other aircraft in that formation didn't get back, ZA403. I know Simon Burgess was the pilot (RIP). Just brought Johns book as a birthday present for my brother and another copy for my wife to pack for mine. Shame I didn't find this photo earlier as it would have been in Dave Gledhill's next book being released at the end of the month.
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 15:56
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Early morning launch by the Dhahran wing, early Feb 1991. Only picture of a flying jet I got!
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 15:57
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The 31 Sqn line at sunrise.
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 18:37
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That was a bast**** to repair and required some lateral thinking outside of the box of stuff we had.
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 21:02
  #40 (permalink)  
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That's amazing John,

On so many levels!

Good on him for having the chutzpa to have a go back - never mind the spare capacity - I can't imagine having any other thought than get lower and faster!
Hard to imagine he could see what he was firing at apart from AAA's flash's - hard to estimate range Id have thought
Presumably the AAA was on track and he just bunted over (in the dark) to have at pop at it.

The mind boggles!

Never heard of any nighttime strafe before

But surely you would expect to be blinded by the gun!
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