Is Ukraine about to have a war?

[ORAC]

Russian TV calling for strikes on German, and presumably UK, bases training Ukrainian troops…

Might be useful to ask the US to deploy a Patriot battery on a training exercise…

https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/st...8XrXtuUsq5_ZbA

[FUMR]

Come on, I can't believe that Ukraine won't be able to destroy the pontoon bridge when they are ready to. No point hitting it too early. Maybe wait until it is in use!

[uxb99]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Russian TV calling for strikes on German, and presumably UK, bases training Ukrainian troops…

If this happened I guess NATO would have to get involved. Then it's War?

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by t43562

Isn't there often a debate about how the armed forces want kit that works (e.g. from the US) rather than debugging some homegrown alternative? Isn't the price of 'homegrown' that you have to put up with all the problems till there's enough money to sort them out?

The problem with US equipment started many moons ago, buying the likes of the Phantom while an excellent aircraft meant a lack of work for our own indigenous aircraft manufactures who either shut up shop or were merged together, they also lost the techniclal know how and advances as they skipped a generation of development and the teams went their own way. Without that generation of jet and weapon manufacturing, factories were shut down and suppliers also suffered as no orders were forthcoming, hence the next round of aircraft purchases America or Europe were again looked at.
Take the Helicopter, would we have needed Chinooks if the Rotordyne hadn't been curtailed, a second generation Rotodyne may have been a world beater, fast, capable of heavy lifting, and troop carrying, but alas we will never know.
But once you go down the path of buying in, your own industry suffers and becomes a shadow of its former self.

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan

What does it matter which it is ? A pontoon bridge is only going to have a capacity of 5 %(?) of a major road-bridge, so drastically under-performing. Maybe the UKr want the Russkis to keep enough soldiers on the west bank so their capture will be a greater propaganda success.

I meant the tanks lol.

[fdr]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

The problem with US equipment started many moons ago, buying the likes of the Phantom while an excellent aircraft meant a lack of work for our own indigenous aircraft manufactures who either shut up shop or were merged together, they also lost the techniclal know how and advances as they skipped a generation of development and the teams went their own way. Without that generation of jet and weapon manufacturing, factories were shut down and suppliers also suffered as no orders were forthcoming, hence the next round of aircraft purchases America or Europe were again looked at.
Take the Helicopter, would we have needed Chinooks if the Rotordyne hadn't been curtailed, a second generation Rotodyne may have been a world beater, fast, capable of heavy lifting, and troop carrying, but alas we will never know.
But once you go down the path of buying in, your own industry suffers and becomes a shadow of its former self.

The Rotordyne as a military transport would also have debilitated all of the unsuspecting team on the receiving end, that thing was designed to upset pilots who flew the thunderscreech. Great concept, but golly, OH&S would have a field day, and it probably would have gone down as an attack against the civil population, on both sides. It was pretty loud. It was and is however a good concept, that had poor timing. The acoustic signature would always be challenging unless they came up with some magic for the tip jets.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by uxb99

If this happened I guess NATO would have to get involved. Then it's War?

{Laughs from safety of reserve occupation...}

Actually, I'll come back if I have to. Obviously as a nurse though, not a stacker!

[golfbananajam]

Originally Posted by uxb99

If this happened I guess NATO would have to get involved. Then it's War?

So, just what is it now then?

[jolihokistix]

Originally Posted by golfbananajam

So, just what is it now then?

For Ukraine it’s war.
For Russia it’s a specious special operation.
For NATO it’s a lend-a-hand to the underdog, wait-and-see poxy proxy operation.

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by fdr

The Rotordyne as a military transport would also have debilitated all of the unsuspecting team on the receiving end, that thing was designed to upset pilots who flew the thunderscreech. Great concept, but golly, OH&S would have a field day, and it probably would have gone down as an attack against the civil population, on both sides. It was pretty loud. It was and is however a good concept, that had poor timing. The acoustic signature would always be challenging unless they came up with some magic for the tip jets.

Actually they had, but it was canned before they got a chance to use them

Westland finally abandoned the project in February 1962 and the Rotodyne Z was never completed. Although lack of faith in the aircraft was the main cause of its demise, a contributory factor was the disproportionate publicity given to the noise made by the Rotodyne's tip-jets, which it was said would inhibit its use in city centres. In fact, well before the aircraft was abandoned this noise had been successfully decreased to less than that made by a London Underground train, which millions of people accept every day; and there was every indication that it would have been reduced even further.

https://aviastar.org/helicopters_eng...y_rotodyne.php

[Tartiflette Fan]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

I meant the tanks lol.

Ah, another invisible link that I didn't check for.

Originally Posted by NutLoose

IBut once you go down the path of buying in, your own industry suffers and becomes a shadow of its former self.

Sure, but we all ( ? ) recall the billions sunk in the Nimrod MRA4 debacle and we now have the continuing and unresolved problem of Ajax IFV which is also about £ 7 Bn down the road with no acceptable system . I see the benefits and the problems and have no answers.

[Fitter2]

The MOD is utterly incompetent at (a) negotiating a contract and (b) managing a project development. From the other side of the fence, they are an almost bottomless money pit, but it makes at least some ex-RAF people in industry have guilty feelings for those serving, and for taxpayers.

[ORAC]

God, it makes me so proud to be British and still one of the most Machiavellian nations on earth…

I mean, what if it’s true….

https://twitter.com/samramani2/statu...YIcG2Mzifu9hLw

Today's headline in RIA Novosti. Due to the Britain-Poland-Ukraine trilateral pact, Britain is seen as the agent behind Poland's integration with Ukraine….

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

But once you go down the path of buying in, your own industry suffers and becomes a shadow of its former self.

The problem you have is that the military market for advanced electronics is tiny compared to the civilian market. This wasn't the case 50 years ago - MIL Spec made up a significant portion of the market, so sourcing MIL Spec electronics was fairly easy and they were routinely used in all aviation applications, not just military.
Today, the civilian market has exploded, and vendors simply can't be bothered with manufacturing MIL Spec in the thousands when they can produce civilian in the millions. As a result, most aviation and military applications use COTS electronics (commercial off the shelf). Yes, they are tested and screened to a higher standard than what's in your laptop or phone (especially the environmental envelope), but they come out of the same factory.
If there is a bright side to the whole COVID mess, it's that the resultant supply chain issues exposed just how vulnerable our industrial bases is when entire sections of the industry can be shut down by the non-availability of chips made in another country (especially when that country isn't exactly your best friend). US Congress recently passed a bill, dedicating hundreds of billions to restoring high-tech chip manufacturing capability onshore. Given the track record of our government, I suspect a large share of that will be wasted or lost to corruption, but at least it's a start.

[NutLoose]

It appears Russia takes the wording Ammunition dump literally.

Twitter

[Video Mixdown]

Originally Posted by ORAC

God, it makes me so proud to be British and still one of the most Machiavellian nations on earth…
I mean, what if it’s true…..

Someone in the FCO is doing a great job. I suspect much more of this sort of thing will come to light eventually.

[ORAC]

You Tube

[NutLoose]

They hit the NOVA KAKHOVKA DAM+LOCK when there was a column crossing it, the road surface on the bridge looks seriously damaged, it’s on the Kherson Cats thread, but I will not post it as it is covered with a lot of Russian soldier body parts.

[Video Mixdown]

Originally Posted by ORAC

https://youtu.be/37iHSwA1SwE

The way we helped stuff the French over the Australian sub deal would have made Sir Humphrey proud.

[rattman]

Originally Posted by Video Mixdown

The way we helped stuff the French over the Australian sub deal would have made Sir Humphrey proud.

Not sure france needed any help in screwing that deal, wanting charge australia a fee for translating from french to english and habitually being late for meeting or straight up not attending them. Doesn't help