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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 20th Aug 2022, 12:02
  #8241 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
If 6 reactor cores are blown then, yes, I would agree. But Putin is sly and I would suspect something much smaller but which still carried a great threat and which Putin would then try to use as some form of negotiating lever.
​​​​​​
Putin has all of the subtlety of a drunk robbing the NYPD Xmas Party.

Perhaps the UN is about to grow a pair.

Russia and nuclear safety are not words used often in the same sentence, except in The Simpson's. Playing about with HE within the confines of a PWR anywhere is not something that OH&S is going to be happy with.

My guess is that around 500 Russian conscripts are already destined to have lots of face time with their oncologists, until that doesn't help any more. Already, from digging foxholes in Chernobyl and cooking mushrooms up there. ZNPP coolant is critical to not having a corium event, which of course gets interesting downwind which covers a large amount of Russia, eastern Europe, and of course goes directly into the region that is proximate to... one of the major rivers flowing into the black sea, which flows into the Mediterranean. Say good bye to fishing for food that isn't self illuminated, forget grain exports from Ukraine and Russia for 10k years...

There is no design of a nuclear power plant that has safety from a sociopathic criminal. Well, there is, there is the PBMR/ Th type GCR etc, but anything with pressurised water as a coolant is not happy with being messed with. That it doesn't have an insane PVC as the RBMK1000 had is beside the point. They still have fuel rods clad with a wonderful source of hydrogen when overheated, so the potential for a rupture of the containment which they do actually have, is still very high.

Destroying ZNPP will put Putin into a special category of global criminal.

Consequences of that are catastrophic to food supplies in Russia, Turkey, Ukraine, contaminating the complete areas of the black and med seas, and depriving food to a substantial part of the world.

That this is a discussion item indicates how insane the actions of the Kremlin have been.

The Kremlin won't be getting an Xmas card from me I can jolly well assure!

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Old 20th Aug 2022, 12:57
  #8242 (permalink)  
 
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 14:39
  #8243 (permalink)  
 
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Amazing piece of PR.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 14:41
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Originally Posted by Pali
It seems HARM missiles are in fact adjusted to use on Mig-29 already: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ation-missiles
From your link:
The U.S. government previously announced a still largely unexplained transfer of 70mm Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System II laser-guided rockets,
these are the old school 2.75 inch rockets, air to ground launched, with a nice guidance upgrade that make the old salvo fire un necessary. The US uses them on various helicopters and IIRC A-10's.
Originally Posted by fdr
Ukraine is, was, and hopefully will remain a free and democratic state, unpolluted by the corruption that resides in the Kremlin and which has done harm to Russia's interests, even yours.
Let's not kid ourselves, Ukraine has had its problems with corruption over the past couple of decades. (Which was one of a number of obstacles to their joining the EU). As but one example, their former PM, Tymoshenko, ended up being convicted and IIRC went to prison. (Mind you, that whole process may have been a massive political ploy by political opponents based on her own efforts to deal with endemic corruption; a variety of charges against her over the years were eventually dismissed).
While that does not excuse an invasion, it might be best not to put on rose colored glasses. Of course, the first priority is to deal successfully with the invasion and sort out the other bits and pieces in due course. In the near term, supporting their efforts to repulse the invasion is going to take primacy over much else. (The dimwits from Amnesty International got that back to front).

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 20th Aug 2022 at 15:20.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 15:47
  #8245 (permalink)  
 
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An outside perspective which seems sensible to me: https://www.theamericanconservative....ukrainian-war/

The Ukraine leadership has done a superb job mobilizing western international opinion and quashing dissent, internally as well as externally.
To illustrate, Victoria Spartz, the one person in Congress who is Ukrainian born and personally familiar with the situation, has been efficiently marginalized,
because her criticism of the Ukraine management were too much for Kiev.
Imho the absence of critical monitoring and auditing was a major factor in the failure of the US Afghan mission, by the evidence it is being repeated in spades in Ukraine
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 16:11
  #8246 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
Let's not kid ourselves, Ukraine has had its problems with corruption over the past couple of decades. (Which was one of a number of obstacles to their joining the EU). As but one example, their former PM, Tymoshenko, ended up being convicted and IIRC went to prison. (Mind you, that whole process may have been a massive political ploy by political opponents based on her own efforts to deal with endemic corruption; a variety of charges against her over the years were eventually dismissed).
While that does not excuse an invasion, it might be best not to put on rose colored glasses. Of course, the first priority is to deal successfully with the invasion and sort out the other bits and pieces in due course. In the near term, supporting their efforts to repulse the invasion is going to take primacy over much else. (The dimwits from Amnesty International got that back to front).
Concur. It is one thing to have the countries own issues to deal with, all countries do to a greater or lesser extent, except my own country, which last had a leader in around 1988.... yet seems to muddle along adequately if not competently. Russia's corruption is on a higher plane (aviation content...)

Ukraine has not breached its treaties with other countries, that is all on the Russian side, and is in keeping with the contempt for agreements that Russia shows at every turn. ​​​ OTOH, the speed that all countries let Ukraine hang out to dry after the agreement to remove nukes from their state was amazing. Enough shame to go around for some time. The excuses given were morally indefensible. ​​​​
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 17:24
  #8247 (permalink)  
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Please stop personalizing the discussion.
I have removed a number of posts that did so, to include the one by Geriaviator who very sensibly called on those of you in this discussion to stop doing just that.
In keeping with general forum rules, remember that you can play the ball and not the player by focusing on what it is about another poster's presentation that you disagree with, and addressing that.
Please do so, and then avoid getting personal in your responses (even if one is tempted to do so).
Thank you all in advance.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 17:30
  #8248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by etudiant
An outside perspective which seems sensible to me: https://www.theamericanconservative....ukrainian-war/

The Ukraine leadership has done a superb job mobilizing western international opinion and quashing dissent, internally as well as externally.
To illustrate, Victoria Spartz, the one person in Congress who is Ukrainian born and personally familiar with the situation, has been efficiently marginalized,
because her criticism of the Ukraine management were too much for Kiev.
Imho the absence of critical monitoring and auditing was a major factor in the failure of the US Afghan mission, by the evidence it is being repeated in spades in Ukraine
Great, shall we do the same analysis for Russia now? How is Putin's gov'mt quashing dissent?

Ukraine was - and probably still is - a very corrupt state, no one denies that. However they made strides in changing their ways and better themselves which is why the Kremlin mafia in Moscow invaded them in the first place.
As for mobilizing western international opinion, Russia did that all by itself.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 17:36
  #8249 (permalink)  
 
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Russia is accusing Ukraine of using chemical weapons. False flag to "justify" chemical weapons by russkies themselves?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Ukraine.html
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 17:52
  #8250 (permalink)  
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Arms From Down Under: Australia's Aid To #Ukraine

Updated with:300 DefendTex D40 Loitering Munitions [To be delivered]

https://t.co/35UnGjvX12



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Old 20th Aug 2022, 18:10
  #8251 (permalink)  
 
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It's global opinion, not just Western. 141 out of 193 UN General Assembly countries voted to demand Russia cease its invasion and withdraw. Russia ignored the vote and continued on their killing spree.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 18:23
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Originally Posted by Low average
It's global opinion, not just Western. 141 out of 193 UN General Assembly countries voted to demand Russia cease its invasion and withdraw. Russia ignored the vote and continued on their killing spree.
Many people would criticise this resolution for having 52 members who didn't support it . What the hell did they require ? Useless, worthless corrupt countries.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 18:54
  #8253 (permalink)  
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WARTHOGS TO UKRAINE?

Time magazine reports that a secret flight simulation center has been established to train Ukrainian aircrews to fly the USís main ground attack aircraft, the A-10.

https://t.co/aq6Pl8rMN2
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 19:02
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 19:11
  #8255 (permalink)  
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Looks like the rest of the Black Sea fleet is being evacuated from Sevastopol - presumably following the rest to Novorossiysk outside missile and UAV range?

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Old 20th Aug 2022, 19:11
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
Many people would criticise this resolution for having 52 members who didn't support it . What the hell did they require ? Useless, worthless corrupt countries.
yes, it could have been even better than the 73% majority.

35 countries abstained (political cowardice?) Russia's supporters were North Korea, Belarus, Syria and Eritrea...which is frankly embarrassing.

Still, it demonstrates that it's not just Western opinion - its the civilised world. Even though Russia tries to distort that fact.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 20:01
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“Originally Posted by tartare [img]images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/img]
I fort the nuclear plant was designed to be so strong as to be able to be hit by an airliner and still hold it's structural integrity.
Am I missing something here?”

Well Tatrare , a couple of little problems:
1) An airliner, being soft and crumbly is not a high speed penetration weapon, designed and built specifically to destroy hardened targets.
2) While the towers were, perhaps, designed to certain standards they were built by Russians. Any bets they were built by corrupt folks using insufficient amounts of very substandard materials and construction practices and “as built” couldn’t resist a hit from well thrown rock?
As for russians shutting down the plant… I would not trust them to turn off a light bulb!
They Russians “welcome” inspectors but not until September. (expect delays). What are they going to inspect? A glowing, smoking hole?

Some Technicolour Dreaming:
Time for the Secretary General of the UN to “Man Up” and show up in person with an inspection team and media in tow and start knocking on the door. I wonder how Putrid would try to spin that?
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 20:46
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Lively in Sevastopol tonight following the drone attack earlier today on the HQ of the Black Sea Fleet.



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Old 20th Aug 2022, 20:50
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Drone attack earlier today.

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Old 20th Aug 2022, 21:00
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Why would they show this? To reassure their own troops? It certainly wonít do a lot at home.

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