When Britain Nuked America....Twice!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
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Salute!
Great story, Beagle, love it. And best tactic for the VooDoo was head on face shot. Best thing with the Genies was we carried two. The Falcon heaters both went same time, so you were done.
No problem, ex-fast. Two countries separated by a common language, and my flight commander in F-102 training was Sqd Leader Cowley, a Lightning troop. The Dick Wharmby in my A-7D sqd at The Beach back around 1974.
Hey Bubba and others, we had some code word during our exercises when NORAD would give the secret code ring to RCAF so they could release their warshot Genies. I was just a nugget, and did not understand all the politicks then, but that had to be a serious decision for the RCAF command authorities. Seems it was like Hiawatha Arrow, and many code words had native American connections. 'course Cokec Pistol was big, then there was ... there was....
..Gums
Great story, Beagle, love it. And best tactic for the VooDoo was head on face shot. Best thing with the Genies was we carried two. The Falcon heaters both went same time, so you were done.
No problem, ex-fast. Two countries separated by a common language, and my flight commander in F-102 training was Sqd Leader Cowley, a Lightning troop. The Dick Wharmby in my A-7D sqd at The Beach back around 1974.
Hey Bubba and others, we had some code word during our exercises when NORAD would give the secret code ring to RCAF so they could release their warshot Genies. I was just a nugget, and did not understand all the politicks then, but that had to be a serious decision for the RCAF command authorities. Seems it was like Hiawatha Arrow, and many code words had native American connections. 'course Cokec Pistol was big, then there was ... there was....
..Gums
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Great thread ! As an old, long-time Voodoo pilot (12 years, 2,000+ hours), I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion. I read the book 'The Penetrators' a long time ago and have no doubt that RAF Vulcans could have pulled that off.
As Gums so accurately described, while the AIR-2A Genie could be launched manually, that would be a last ditch measure. The normal procedure was to obtain a radar lock-on to the target; the pilot would then 'steer the dot' with trigger two depressed; and the MG-13 radar/fire control system (FCS) would automatically launch the weapon with a predetermined time-of-flight depending on altitude and overtake on the target. That was followed with a hard break to get the heck out of the area as quickly as possible. The actual steering solution that the FCS provided was 'modified lead collision' which meant that in addition to 'F-Pole' (lead), a 'G-Pole' and 'Drop' were added so the the detonation point would occur slightly ahead of, and slightly below the target, thus increasing the PoK.
Performance of the aircraft was as Gums has described: high altitude, subsonic and heavy on fuel there was a lot of shaking and shuddering going on. But supersonic, things became very smooth and cool. Unfortunate, one could not go long in burner (they still can't). The PsubS numbers were not that of more manoeuvrable fighters; if memory serves, 'corner velocity' was in the 420 KIAS range.
I also recall intercepting a B-58 one night over Northern Quebec, maybe in about 1970. We tried to 'shoot him in the face' with a front attack but that 'gate stealer' did very effective work and we couldn't maintain a radar lock-on. So, at minimum range I selected full burner and went into the 're-attack' manoeuvre. When I rolled out behind him, all I saw was four J-79s light up in burner and it was all over.
Mixing it up close-in with a Vulcan was something we all learned - the hard way - not to do. I recall numerous intercepts against Vulcans out of Goose Bay or Bagotville where, if you got sucked into a turning fight, the most common conversation between the front and back seat was: "How the F#$K" did he get back there !
Good times ...
As Gums so accurately described, while the AIR-2A Genie could be launched manually, that would be a last ditch measure. The normal procedure was to obtain a radar lock-on to the target; the pilot would then 'steer the dot' with trigger two depressed; and the MG-13 radar/fire control system (FCS) would automatically launch the weapon with a predetermined time-of-flight depending on altitude and overtake on the target. That was followed with a hard break to get the heck out of the area as quickly as possible. The actual steering solution that the FCS provided was 'modified lead collision' which meant that in addition to 'F-Pole' (lead), a 'G-Pole' and 'Drop' were added so the the detonation point would occur slightly ahead of, and slightly below the target, thus increasing the PoK.
Performance of the aircraft was as Gums has described: high altitude, subsonic and heavy on fuel there was a lot of shaking and shuddering going on. But supersonic, things became very smooth and cool. Unfortunate, one could not go long in burner (they still can't). The PsubS numbers were not that of more manoeuvrable fighters; if memory serves, 'corner velocity' was in the 420 KIAS range.
I also recall intercepting a B-58 one night over Northern Quebec, maybe in about 1970. We tried to 'shoot him in the face' with a front attack but that 'gate stealer' did very effective work and we couldn't maintain a radar lock-on. So, at minimum range I selected full burner and went into the 're-attack' manoeuvre. When I rolled out behind him, all I saw was four J-79s light up in burner and it was all over.
Mixing it up close-in with a Vulcan was something we all learned - the hard way - not to do. I recall numerous intercepts against Vulcans out of Goose Bay or Bagotville where, if you got sucked into a turning fight, the most common conversation between the front and back seat was: "How the F#$K" did he get back there !
Good times ...
Last edited by TLB; 26th Mar 2021 at 20:36.
Salute!
Thanks, TLB, guess my old fading memory ain't too bad.
The thing about the stern attack on the B-58 was that sucker could hold 0.95M and to get overtake you had to use burner and get up to 1.15M or more So a cold rollout was a bad deal. The face shot was the way to go or a "hot" beam. The RCAF F100 and the U,S. F-89 had no chance except a face shot or hot beam.
The NORAD computers calculated a 4 mile stern attack with 50 knots of overtake. Heh heh. Fat chance.
..Gums..
Thanks, TLB, guess my old fading memory ain't too bad.
The thing about the stern attack on the B-58 was that sucker could hold 0.95M and to get overtake you had to use burner and get up to 1.15M or more So a cold rollout was a bad deal. The face shot was the way to go or a "hot" beam. The RCAF F100 and the U,S. F-89 had no chance except a face shot or hot beam.
The NORAD computers calculated a 4 mile stern attack with 50 knots of overtake. Heh heh. Fat chance.
..Gums..
There were a couple of CF-100 'Clunks' at Chatham during my brief visit - I think they were in some ECM training fit?
But in the mid-60s a number of ex-Belgian CF-100s were in storage in dismantled state at Merryfield aerodrome in Somerset. I was trying to find a way into their hangar when a security person appeared and yelled at me to Foxtrot Oscar - so I hopped onto my bike and pedalled away! When/how the Clunks had arrived and when/how they left I have always wondered as Merryfield was on C&M at the time.....
But in the mid-60s a number of ex-Belgian CF-100s were in storage in dismantled state at Merryfield aerodrome in Somerset. I was trying to find a way into their hangar when a security person appeared and yelled at me to Foxtrot Oscar - so I hopped onto my bike and pedalled away! When/how the Clunks had arrived and when/how they left I have always wondered as Merryfield was on C&M at the time.....
