Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

RAF Voyager ZZ336 Government Transport

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

RAF Voyager ZZ336 Government Transport

Old 22nd Mar 2021, 14:01
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,060
Received 64 Likes on 39 Posts
EGLC is not so much about the runway length and tiny apron space but about the steep descent ahead. A321neo? No way.
Less Hair is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 14:04
  #22 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,535
Received 219 Likes on 133 Posts
A318, A220-100 and the Embraer E190 (not sure about the E195) I think are the biggest types that are cleared in - not sure how they all compare length/span/weights. The A321 apparently needs about 6500' and City is about a mile.
treadigraph is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 14:32
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,457
Received 2,594 Likes on 1,098 Posts
Originally Posted by Less Hair
EGLC is not so much about the runway length and tiny apron space but about the steep descent ahead. A321neo? No way.

You know its just been widened

https://airport-world.com/london-cit...sion-projects/
NutLoose is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 15:23
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,217
Received 315 Likes on 175 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
The article mentions the A220, which is still a lot lighter than the 321. But, as already pointed out, it's about the flight manual approach angle clearance - 5.5 degrees required. (Plus crew training, but irrelevant is a/c not approved.) The expansion also allow a/c to hold by the departure threshold, whereas previously they had to enter and backtrack, so hourly movements greatly improved.
212man is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 16:19
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,703
Received 32 Likes on 21 Posts
Presumably they've realised the Voyager is too big/expensive to use for local trips for lesser Ministers than the PM - or have it's military taskings meant it's not been available when needed.

Davef68 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 16:40
  #26 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,535
Received 219 Likes on 133 Posts
At only a mile, Northolt is still too short for an A321 - at MTOW anyway. What happened to the other BA A318, wasn't that kitted out as all first class?
treadigraph is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 17:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,217
Received 315 Likes on 175 Posts
Originally Posted by treadigraph
At only a mile, Northolt is still too short for an A321 - at MTOW anyway. What happened to the other BA A318, wasn't that kitted out as all first class?
All Club/Business (32 seats I think)
212man is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 18:04
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,798
Received 90 Likes on 63 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Only the taxiway, not the runway.
chevvron is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 19:48
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,921
Received 137 Likes on 62 Posts
mcdhu,

Why wouldn't 32 Sqn operate the new A321?

pr00ne is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 19:51
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,921
Received 137 Likes on 62 Posts
Davef68,

Doubt that they/ve realised anything of the kind. This is a new capability replace the 4 32 Sqn BAe 146's, not the Voyager, which I would imagine will be operated pretty much as it has been.
pr00ne is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 20:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by pr00ne
mcdhu,

Why wouldn't 32 Sqn operate the new A321?
Why would they? In the current climate, I cannot see the RAF operating a single type like that, and a whole sqn with one A321 and a rotary taxi?

Of course, if the politicians had bought a 737, it could possibly have lived at Lossie with all the others ...
Friedlander is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2021, 21:59
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not sure there's been any mention of these being RAF owned, operated or based. Quite the opposite, appears to be some sort of lease deal with Titan themselves. Could be that the place where they are now IS where they will be based?
andrewn is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 07:42
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,798
Received 90 Likes on 63 Posts
So it looks like Northolt may be handed over to a civilian contactor then if there are to be no RAF aircraft based there.
chevvron is online now  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 09:23
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Age: 59
Posts: 2,709
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
What happened to the other BA A318, wasn't that kitted out as all first class?
There was some coverage a few weeks ago that it (G-EUNA) has gone for scrapping (at Twenthe in Holland) - at only 11 years old.

It does indeed seem that G-XATW will be joined by a second 321Neo, to be registered G-GBNI, that is currently at Finkenwerder.



Wycombe is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 12:00
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,703
Received 32 Likes on 21 Posts
So a non-military contractor operated Government Air Service. Presumably it will have defensive aids fitted?
Davef68 is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 14:12
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Here
Posts: 133
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Less Hair
EGLC is not so much about the runway length and tiny apron space but about the steep descent ahead. A321neo? No way.
I think runway length was an issue for BA's 318s flying the all business class service to JFK, they couldn't get away with a full fuel load hence the fuelling stop at Shannon.

It was a very nice way to fly, nibbles, fizz and starters on the way to Shannon and main course on the ground avoiding any risk of turbulence upsetting it. A bit different from most baby bus flights.
Ripton is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 14:17
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: near an airplane
Posts: 2,764
Received 46 Likes on 37 Posts
There was a second reason for the stop at Shannon: passengers were processed through US customs during this stopover so that when arriving at JFK, they could proceed as if getting off a regional flight.
Jhieminga is online now  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 14:22
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,060
Received 64 Likes on 39 Posts
They are said to have wanted to go to LaGuardia originally which would have been cool arriving "domestic" because of being pre-cleared already. However there is a perimeter rule in place that limits permissible flight lengths at KLGA.
Less Hair is online now  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 15:26
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: west midlands
Age: 58
Posts: 36
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Seems a strange choice as a replacement for the 146, the 146 is quite a "self sufficient" aircraft which had it's own stairs fitted and didn't require ground handling equipment to load or unload baggage whereby the A321 is much bigger, looks like it requires external steps, will require a baggage loader & will require longer runways
Surely the BBJ MAX, which is compatible with P8 and P7 with a cargo door would have been more suitable, built in steps, no baggage belt required and great range. In addition if a cargo door was fitted it could be used for the aeromed role?
A4scooter is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2021, 15:42
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Slough, UK
Age: 35
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by A4scooter
Surely the BBJ MAX, which is compatible with P8 and P7 with a cargo door would have been more suitable, built in steps, no baggage belt required and great range. In addition if a cargo door was fitted it could be used for the aeromed role?
I suspect this deal with Titan was arrived on pretty quickly and on very favourable conditions for the government. The 2 brand new A321neos were originally intended for TCS Travel use (operated by Titan crews). Most likely due to COVID travel restrictions, Titan have had to be inventive with how they repurpose the aircraft in the short and long term.

I have no background information on where they will be based but I would imagine Stansted at Titan HQ but with the capability to dispatch at short notice to most places. Heathrow has plenty of spare capacity at the moment so the Royal Suite would be suitable.. Stansted is not a million miles from London and of course it could also operate out of Brize. Boris in the past has said that the A330 is rarely available.

champ
champair79 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.