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Turkey to Replace F-35B with UCAV

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Turkey to Replace F-35B with UCAV

Old 13th Mar 2021, 06:59
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Turkey to Replace F-35B with UCAV

https://www.defensenews.com/global/2...-assault-ship/

Turkey plans to deploy attack drones from its amphibious assault ship

MERSIN, Turkey — The Turkish government hopes to transform its landing helicopter dock Anadolu into a carrier ship for attack drones, and has already begun tests to see if the dock ship is strong enough for the mission.

When the United States removed Turkey from the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter project after it purchased the s S-400 air defense system from Russia, the Turkish Navy lost the capability to launch a fixed-wing aircraft from Anadolu.

“To give UAVs takeoff-and-land[ing] ability on aircraft carriers, their structure must be strong because they are subjected to very high G-shocks. We aim to develop a new [unmanned combat aerial vehicle] UCAV that will successfully land and take off on LHD Anadolu in one year,” the CEO of drone-maker Baykar, Haluk Bayraktar, said during an recent interview.

Ismail Demir, the government’s president of defense industries, said companies have been working on the Baykar-made Bayraktar TB2 and other unmanned fixed-wing projects to turn Anadolu into a drone carrier.

With that setup, at least 10 armed drones could be simultaneously used in operations and integrated into a command-and-control center on the ship. After completing the project, between 30 and 50 folding-winged Bayraktar TB3 drones will be able to land and take off using the deck of Anadolu, he said.

Officials are reluctant to offer specifics about the projects, yet it’s widely expected that a new model of the Bayraktar TB3, derived from the combat-proven TB2, is under development. The new drone will be larger and feature a higher payload capacity.

The Turkish Navy fitted the Anadolu ship with a fully equipped flight deck (with a ski jump ramp in front), suitable for F-35B short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing aircraft. The ship’s deck was designed and built with these type of aircraft in mind; but it doesn’t have the structure, provision and equipment for the conventional landing of fixed-wing aircraft. Only VTOL and STOVL air assets can operate on Anadolu.

As a result, the Turkish military’s attack drones cannot land and take off from Anadolu, and that’s why officials want to make modifications. But doing so could cause a delay in the delivery of the ship.

A drone carrier would also be a new operational concept. Since the drones do not have air-to-air combat capability yet, their primary purpose seems to be intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance as well as small-scale strike operations (such as engaging coastal targets and naval assets with low air-defense capabilities).

The drones could also be used as sonobuoy carrying platforms for anti-submarine warfare operations.
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Old 13th Mar 2021, 20:16
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That looks like some forward thinking by the Turkish MoD.
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 08:21
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When you look at the footage released of their operations in Armenia/Azerbaijan it 's pretty impressive stuff

If I was in any Army I'd be seriously questioning how you maintain security over your own forces against such a threat
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 13:20
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
When you look at the footage released of their operations in Armenia/Azerbaijan it 's pretty impressive stuff

If I was in any Army I'd be seriously questioning how you maintain security over your own forces against such a threat
Hush, you don't want to disturb the slumber of our current military planners. By the evidence, they have successfully ignored that event.
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 13:41
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Hush, you don't want to disturb the slumber of our current military planners. By the evidence, they have successfully ignored that event.
UAVs don't have magic powers as far as I know - they're a target for air defence systems like any other aircraft. They've been shot down before and will be again.
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 14:03
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UAVs don't have magic powers as far as I know - they're a target for air defence systems like any other aircraft. They've been shot down before and will be again.
Assuming you've got adequate air defence.....

https://news.yahoo.com/british-tanks...124411826.html

...."Were the British Army to have to fight a peer adversary - a euphemism for Russia - in eastern Europe in the next few years, whilst our soldiers would undoubtedly remain amongst the finest in the world, they would, disgracefully, be forced to go into battle in a combination of obsolescent or even obsolete armoured vehicles, most of them at least 30 years old or more, with poor mechanical reliability, very heavily outgunned by more modern missile and artillery systems and chronically lacking in adequate air defence.".......
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 15:47
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"UAVs don't have magic powers as far as I know - they're a target for air defence systems like any other aircraft"

and they're very very expensive - using a $1 mm missile to shoot down a $ 500 drone isn't a good way to stay in business - and the UK has only very limited ground based anti-aircraft capability anyway
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 16:30
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
UAVs don't have magic powers as far as I know - they're a target for air defence systems like any other aircraft. They've been shot down before and will be again.
As Asturias56 has pointed out, nobody has demonstrated a cost effective drone killing capability, despite the clear need. That indicates it is a significant problem, still being ignored in the force planning by all appearances.
Filtering out a set of small, agile and cheap airframes really requires an effective drone hunter of some sort, which no one has been able to produce. [email protected] based air defenses are in development, but still a good ways off from practical service.
So there is no need for magic powers, just a recognition that this is an unsolved issue which needs fixing asap.
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 16:50
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"using a $1 mm missile to shoot down a $ 500 drone isn't a good way to stay in business"

We've been doing that for years using very expensive missiles fired from expensive and capable assets to take out basic Toyota Technical Trucks and the like. I agree it seems a very expensive answer to a cheap problem but imagine the damage the drone could be responsible for.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 08:46
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For years I've questioned why the UK has such poor aground based anti air capability - a few Rapiers to be replaced by Martlet with very limited range

I'd have thought an old ZSU23-4 would be useful against small drones
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 16:12
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Originally Posted by Headstone View Post
"using a $1 mm missile to shoot down a $ 500 drone isn't a good way to stay in business"

We've been doing that for years using very expensive missiles fired from expensive and capable assets to take out basic Toyota Technical Trucks and the like. I agree it seems a very expensive answer to a cheap problem but imagine the damage the drone could be responsible for.
Indeed we've been doing it for years indeed, the effort unblemished by success.
In a more rational world, we would consider changing our approach, But we've educated our military to believe that ongoing failure is perfectly normal.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 08:36
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
When you look at the footage released of their operations in Armenia/Azerbaijan it 's pretty impressive stuff
Indeed it was - it seems to have got to the point they ran out of targets and resorted to targeting small groups of troops in foxholes. By contrast Armenia's efforts were rather lame, fielding converted AN2s to give the Azerbaijan AD gunners some target practice.

Turkey are certainly setting the pace for drone development and application. I'm sure many western planners are watching with interest.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 10:51
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
For years I've questioned why the UK has such poor aground based anti air capability - a few Rapiers to be replaced by Martlet with very limited range

I'd have thought an old ZSU23-4 would be useful against small drones
Drones are a lot smaller target, plus they normally stand well off from the target, so absent a proximity fuse, the ZSU would struggle.
Perhaps a bit bigger system, such as the Korean War vintage Skysweeper with twin 40mm tubes might work with appropriate ammunition.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 15:18
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No personal knowledge of these, but it seems like [email protected] could become effective against drones. Drones that depend on visual sensors for targeting might at least be dazzled by [email protected]
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 08:18
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This weeks Economist noted that drones are cheaper than manned aircraft but they don't necessarily lower your costs

The US is finding that ground level and intelligence "customers" want 24/7 coverage everywhere. You can't do it with manned aircraft - there aren't enough and the costs would be astronomical - but drones are a lot easier.

Total costs are going up with the amount of coverage, and the vast increase in data collected and which needs to be interpreted
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 08:52
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I guess the next logical thing will be drone killer drones.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 11:58
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Just another phase of the arms race that has been going on since man first picked up a stick, and his foe picked up a bigger one. I well remember leafing through Jane's and on one page seeing and advert for the ultimate attack helicopter, and on the next page one for the ultimate anti-helicopter weapon. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 15:09
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AS in torpedo, torpedo-boat, torpedo-boat-destroyer............................
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