Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Independent RAF

Old 10th Feb 2021, 09:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lincoln
Age: 83
Posts: 9
Independent RAF

An independent RAF is becoming hard to justify. The Royal Navy, with its new carriers and aircraft could easily take on the RAF role on land. The Fleet Air Arm had a number of land bases in the past. As for transport aircraft, the work is done chiefly for the British Army so the army could take that part over. Training could be done at an MOD unit. Central Flying School would remain, as part of the MOD.

Any thoughts/opinions?
John LeBrun is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:07
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,910
Ooh, ooh. Me first.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha haha.

BV
Bob Viking is online now  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:09
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: York
Posts: 477
Originally Posted by John LeBrun View Post
An independent RAF is becoming hard to justify. The Royal Navy, with its new carriers and aircraft could easily take on the RAF role on land. The Fleet Air Arm had a number of land bases in the past. As for transport aircraft, the work is done chiefly for the British Army so the army could take that part over. Training could be done at an MOD unit. Central Flying School would remain, as part of the MOD.

Any thoughts/opinions?
Someone's on a fishing trip
muppetofthenorth is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:13
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by John LeBrun View Post
An independent RAF is becoming hard to justify. The Royal Navy, with its new carriers and aircraft could easily take on the RAF role on land. The Fleet Air Arm had a number of land bases in the past. As for transport aircraft, the work is done chiefly for the British Army so the army could take that part over. Training could be done at an MOD unit. Central Flying School would remain, as part of the MOD.

Any thoughts/opinions?

That's probably been true for years though the people who would make the decision would end up sacrificing their own careers, so unlikely to ever happen.
golfbananajam is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:20
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Closer than you think...
Age: 62
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by John LeBrun View Post
An independent RAF is becoming hard to justify. The Royal Navy, with its new carriers and aircraft could easily take on the RAF role on land. The Fleet Air Arm had a number of land bases in the past. As for transport aircraft, the work is done chiefly for the British Army so the army could take that part over. Training could be done at an MOD unit. Central Flying School would remain, as part of the MOD.

Any thoughts/opinions?
Take it one stage further.... The RN already have the RM, so why not merge the Army into the RM as well?

Sitting back, popcorn at the ready... Watch & Shoot, watch & shoot.....
Always a Sapper is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:25
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 112
Has Sharky got a new log in name?
ASRAAMTOO is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:34
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Trumpville, on the edge
Posts: 71
First the RN want to take over the porn industry, now this.....
Trumpet trousers is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:55
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 76
Posts: 6,128
Ah, bring back the days when all 3 Services had their own element of the other two!

RAF + RAF Regt + Marine Branch
RN + RM + FAA
Army + AAC + RCT shipping

How did we ever get anything done?
MPN11 is online now  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:55
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: KORR somewhere
Posts: 353
Do we need a Royal Navy?

RAF used to have MCU's, so it can easily absorbe that role.. and as for the white elephant floating runways..
plans123 is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 11:34
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Next door.
Posts: 678
JLB, surely you've got this the wrong way round? The RAF should operate ALL aviation assets, Navy the boats, Army - land stuff. Simples.
Stitchbitch is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 11:35
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cardiff
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by ASRAAMTOO View Post
Has Sharky got a new log in name?

😆🤣

Ttfn
ivor toolbox is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 11:49
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,082
Originally Posted by ASRAAMTOO View Post
Has Sharky got a new log in name?
It's these French Canadians, even worse than the real thing

YS
Yellow Sun is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 11:52
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Stitchbitch View Post
JLB, surely you've got this the wrong way round? The RAF should operate ALL aviation assets, Navy the boats, Army - land stuff. Simples.
It would make more sense!
Boeing Jet is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 11:58
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Norwich
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by ASRAAMTOO View Post
Has Sharky got a new log in name?
I read the OP and wondered how many replies would occuer until that name was mentioned!
Non Linear Gear is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 12:30
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 76
Posts: 361
Those of us who know John would never confuse him with Sharky. I just think he needs to take a longer view rather than a quick snapshot.
Barksdale Boy is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 12:35
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,910
BB

Oh God. Are you trying to say it was a serious question?

In which case, may I say again:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha

BV
Bob Viking is online now  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 13:12
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 60
Posts: 1,432
John Lebrun,

Ever since options for change the RAF's frontline assets have been eviscerated more quickly and widely than anything else. The Army have now lost most of their armour and the Infantry have been cut back significantly with Regimental identities lost and now we hear, they are desperately short on manpower in many of the Battalions.
This is all due to a dismissive attitude by all Governments since the end of the Cold war, it was bad enough before, but the Berlin Wall's destruction in November 1989 was snatched at as an opportunity to save money. If we try to subsume the RAF into the RN, and some elements into the Army, this will just quicken and worsen the process of evisceration of all that's left. Neither of the other services would get the Budget necessary to accommodate the RAF's roles fully. There would also be cost incurred by transferring the RAF into the other services, including the change in ethos, uniforms, training (particularly the finer customs and details of the more senior services), it would be an expensive, long drawn out and unhappy mess. Who would operate the A-400s, E-3Ds, Voyagers? These air elements don't sit well with either Sea or Land operations in fact they are very much irrelevant, just as the air defence of the UK (given how established and complex it is, GCI, QRA etc) is to the RN and Army. The problem is lack of investment in and proper attention to all the services.

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 13:30
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 4,050
If this is John Lebrun AFC - please hand in your gong at the nearest Guardroom!



Lima Juliet is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 13:49
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 904
At the risk of crediting a stupid question with a sensible answer, Iím surprised you didnít mention the Ďenormous savingsí to be made otherwise why do it?

Except that there wouldnít be any. Most if not all the personnel would simply change services (£££ for new uniforms etc), Air Marshals would become Generals & Admirals (unless you could successfully argue that those of that rank in the RN & army had sufficient capacity to take on the extra responsibilities, in which case why are there so many underutilized admirals & generals?), ditto for adminers. You would need the same number of airfields, ATC, engineers, suppliers etc. If the aircraft numbers remain the same then you need all the support network as there isnít much duplication between the services.

So where would the savings be? And if itís not going to save any money why bother? Unless itís to satisfy a long held grudge against the RAF?

As the FAA & AAC are so tiny it would make little sense for them to take over the (much larger) RAF. That would be like the RAF Regt absorbing the army. Which probably makes as much if not more sense than the original question.

Ken Scott is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 14:32
  #20 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock, #29B
Posts: 901
Does it matter?

The map still says "United Kingdom", yet 'arry 'uckkers is int the process of disassembly.

The Welsh airforce can keep the training stuff I guess but might mind bombing on one of their few bits of turf. Scotland is a new nuke power, excellent, nothing ever went wrong with strong drink and nukes. Isle of wright lays down a SOSUS array across the Solent to keep the pride of the English navy at bay, HMS Holland, last seen at Gosport. HMS Belfast raises a head of steam to venture out to keep the scots part of the Union, but DEPRA nails a writ to the foremast, for excessive particulates. The quartermaster's bowels loosened at the thought of QCB with PS Maid of the Loch, armed with haggis, scotch and fearful noisemakers. The bowel incident resulted in a further environmental regs penalty for discharge within the 3-mile limit, and much derision from the triumphant scots. Sadly, the scots knew that they still had to go back and live in Scotland, the reason for drink. Isle of Mann joined forces with Guernsey, and blockaded Isle of Wright and the perfidious Englanders, by the cunning method of reporting the actual coastal forecast, leading to shipping chaos, and a collapse of all logistics other than Harrods, who maintained their prestigious place in service to the crown, or half-crown, as it was now known. Harrods bottom line was improved immeasurably by the crowning of the King of Wales, who on coming out o the closet, was then coronated again as the Queen of Wales, to great joy from royalty fans in San Francisco. Rio collapsed on the realization of the competition mardi gras now had with the LGBTQ-XZ parade at Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. Oops, sorry, not sure if that was "spelt rite" or the cat went walkabout on my keyboard. The RAF now named the 'EAF based out of Duxford continued to work on getting black 6 back in front line order, but DBenz was only prepared to sell them spares that would fit the Mini Clubman turbo motor. The surplus aircraft were sold off, a C17 here, a MRTT there, the Tornadoes were turned down by Nigeria, who considered they already had enough chicken coops. The Typhoons, were subsequently found in the Iraqi desert, interspersed with MiG-23s and -29's. The remainder of the former RN was sold off to shipbreakers north of Mumbai, except for one carrier that was taken aboard by the Swiss, and used as a floating amphitheatre for the reformed ABBA group. It was considered to be a non-combatant ship. The army was able to fill their retirement funds by selling the challengers to Burundi, and the ammo to the French. A profitable enterprise, resulting in a remake of Catch-22 with the disclosure of the PM's son being the chairman of the intermediary company, called M & M Enterprises, Ltd. Providors to the Queen. The Army was disappointed that the IRA, refused the Enfield L85A1's considering them to be a trojan horse ploy.

Yup, at this point, the services combined, and all lived happily ever after. England, however, went bankrupt, having to pay for the change to the tourist maps n all, and then finding that the tourists and the city had taken the hint and departed the fix post haste.

At least the former United Kingdom didn't have to pay the EU for anything, they were now part of the updated moniker of disaster, PIGSUK.

Those were the days.



fdr is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.