Using Rank on Retirement

[pasta]

This is going back a bit, but my school was full of them; mostly Army, but I remember a few Navy too. One always had to refer to them as Major xxx, Commander yyy, Capt zzz etc. Even at the time it seemed a bit weird; one teacher I never got on with insisted on being called Lieutenant xxxx, which said a lot in hindsight.
I have a number of good friends with PhDs, never once heard any of them referred to as Dr xxxx, even in a professional capacity.

[hunterboy]

I can understand that maybe just after WW2, retaining rank after retirement may be regarded as fairly normal. Many of those had earned their ranks the hard way and deserved some recognition from society . However, nowadays, I would imagine it does more harm than good to introduce yourself as “Squadron Leader X or Col. Y” unless it is directly related to the situation. I’m not sure the leader board down the golf club would qualify.

[brakedwell]

I went from Flight Lieutenant to Captain, but never used either in normal life.

[Ancient Observer]

I used to know a very senior chap who in his various 2 - 3 year slots before he took his K had a spell doing what laughingly passed as "career development" in the MoD.

I am sure that some of the folk that he moved around his chess board were very bright and capable. Some.

However, he did tell me at what rank those who were on the magic carpet got eased out. It is no secret that those who became Major whilst quite young, and then left, were eased out as they were not going to go any further. This happened in all the Services. But not to the Civil Servants!! Some became a bit bitter and twisted about it.

So I am always very suspicious of anyone who uses their rank post retirement. Do some of them understand how widely they are broadcasting their failure?

[old,not bold]

As a lowly ex-Captain RA, I ran a business on the River Dart for a few years, and discovered that it paid when I needed something from the ex-naval jobsworths in the Dart Harbour Authority to sign my letters Captain RA, but with the A looking very like an N.

[911slf]

Nothing to prove

When I was a young and junior civil servant I was told that a retired army major was going to be on my staff. I had my concerns but he was absolutely fine to work with. He did not feel he had anything to prove.

[4468]

There's a golf club Bath/Chippenham way, that has a board showing past club captains etc. One such entry is Sqn Ldr xxxxxx - quite odd really.

Is it possible he was still a serving officer when captain of the golf club? (There were a few RAF airfields not a million miles from Chippenham.)

If so, I’d say that would be fair enough?

[Herod]

It's a funny old world. Like ShyTorque, I also have two commissioning scrolls; one as an Acting Pilot Officer (regular) and one as a Flying officer (VRT)..Totally irrelevant now. However, my new RAFA membership card, which used to say "Mr", now says "Flt Lt"

There is one chap I meet each morning when going for a paper. We greet one another with "Morning Colonel", "Morning Wing Commander". Neither of us ever held those ranks. All good for a laugh among us long-retired folk.

[The Oberon]

Originally Posted by brakedwell

I went from Flight Lieutenant to Captain, but never used either in normal life.

Strangely enough, according to Debrett's, as a Flight Lieutenant you should not, but as a Captain, providing your post was connected with horses, you can.
It seems to go back to when officers of field rank were "laid off" on half pay between wars, so Majors and their RN equivalents were still serving but not in uniform. The exception was the cavalry and RA whose Captains were also on half pay.
There were a few question marks about Mark Phillips calling himself Captain but being ex cavalry, he was quite entitled to do so.

[Spartacan]

Isn't this just another form of spiteful wokery?

I've just had an email from the RAF Club promoting a talk by Sqn Ldr John Peters of Tornado Down fame.

I think he thoroughly deserves to be remembered by his title . . .

[Yellow Sun]

Originally Posted by pasta

This is going back a bit, but my school was full of them; mostly Army, but I remember a few Navy too. One always had to refer to them as Major xxx, Commander yyy, Capt zzz etc. "...............

Interesting that my own experience was almost diametrically different. Members of staff might mention their wartime experience in passing but made little of it; after all everyone had been involved and done something. It was only in later years when the obituaries started to be published that I learned the Headmaster had a “good war’ in small craft in the Far East, the Head of English had completed 2 tours as a navigator in Bomber Command; the senior modern languages master had his after action reports quoted by Max Hastings in Armageddon. Finally there was the former Wren who taught geography and spoke fluent German. It was only when her old friends were contacted after her death that it became known that she had spent her war at Bletchley Park. She never breathed a word about it.

I cannot recall rank ever being mentioned, it wasn’t necessary. We were fortunate to have been taught by them.

YS

[lightonthewater]

A director of the shipping owning company (my first employer) always called himself 'Captain Brown', and accorded with the respect due to his assumed maritime expertise. After it was discovered that he had been actually an army captain in the catering corps, and had never seen active duty at all, he looked rather silly. His nickname was ever after 'Captain', but with laughter and without the respect. On the other hand, my father, who earned his MC in 1943 and promotion to Major in 1944,) was later given an official letter authorising him to keep the military title, but he never ever used it. (though his Daily Telegraph obituary did)

[Akrotiri bad boy]

After the mob showed me the door as part of their "Options for Change" I spent many years with HM Customs & Excise in a post that required me to hold the Queens Commission. I would not for the life of me expect, nor would I wish for, anyone to refer to me as HM Customs (retd), Higher Executive Officer (retd) or any other such nonsense relating to what I once was rather than what I now am. My commission is printed on parchment, written in a very fine hand quoting archaic phrases only a classics scholar would understand. It sits in an envelope at the back of my sock draw with all the other detritus from previous careers.

Let it go! But do remember; the older you get the better you were.

[langleybaston]

I write, as ever, as a mere civvy and SLF. Oh! and a Queen's Scout! I certainly don't have a dog in the fight.

Nobody has yet commented on the likelihood that scarcely any member of the public these days has any idea of any of the three rank structures, and is virtually unimpressible by anything short of a knighthood..
My little village has several retired senior officers, some very senior retired police officers, and a knight of the realm ......... none of them clinging to any sort of entitlement, but happy to talk over a pint [remember talking over pints?] and learn of mutual friends, enemies and experiences, places served and journeys made.

I believe that clinging to military ranks {Retd] has had its day, except as courtesy addresses and third-party references. As for army captains retaining the rank title, that is surely risible.

[The B Word]

More importantly, what about the plonkers who call themselves “Captain” when they fly airliners or even puddle jumpers for a flying school for a living - now that is the sign of a Walter Mitty of the highest order...

[Wensleydale]

I find it quite amusing when introductions are made around the table at a meeting that has a military connection attended by a mix of mostly civilians, retirees and serving. The serving junior officers tend to introduce themselves as "Flt Lt Bloggs" or "Fg Off Bloggs" etc which often seems like a vain attempt to sound self important (especially when they are already in uniform). I find that senior officers in the same position do not use the rank but Christian and surname. I also find that senior civil servants insist on using just Christian names..it makes things much more approachable.

[hunterboy]

I think the whole point is they aren’t important at all nowadays. The military seems to be more of a job than a calling nowadays, and I gather the younger generations are distinctly unimpressed and uninterested by rank or titles anyway. Unless those titles and transferable skills stretch to Call of Duty and DCS.

[Non Linear Gear]

Originally Posted by The B Word

More importantly, what about the plonkers who call themselves “Captain” when they fly airliners or even puddle jumpers for a flying school for a living - now that is the sign of a Walter Mitty of the highest order...

I have no issue with a P1 on an airliner refering to him being the captain of the aircraft on his address to the passengers. He is the captain and commander of that craft. He has the responsiblity for the lives of the people flying with him. Only time I have ever seen any of the many pilots I have dealt with use the term is for the introduction and updates. End of the day we are all Mister. That does take me to a time where I was talking to a rather well known RAF Officer, due to his extra curicular activities, in a mess where I was a guest. He asked me what I had done in the RAF. I mentioned my ex rank then. The question was then, why I was in the mess? "Because I am a Mister". Took a couple of times to be said, before he understood.

[Ken Scott]

Having perused a copy of Debrett’s I found the established practice is:

Anyone attaining the rank of Admiral of the Fleet, Field Marshal or Marshal of the Royal Air Force ‘continue to use this rank’ as they effectively remain on the active list permanently.

Other regular officers who attained the substantive rank of captain and above may use, and be addressed by, their rank on retirement from the Army.

It also states:

The word ‘retired’ (or ‘retd’) should not be added after an officer’s name in ordinary correspondence or in lists, but only when it is specifically necessary to indicate that an officer has retired, for example one employed in a civilian capacity in a Ministry of Defence establishment to avoid confusion with serving officers.

Interestingly it has the same wording for retired Royal Navy & RAF officers but for Lt Cdrs & Sqn Ldrs. Why an ex-army JO gets to retain their rank title when you need to be a SO from the other services it doesn’t explain.

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by Non Linear Gear

I have no issue with a P1 on an airliner refering to him being the captain of the aircraft on his address to the passengers. He is the captain and commander of that craft. He has the responsiblity for the lives of the people flying with him. Only time I have ever seen any of the many pilots I have dealt with use the term is for the introduction and updates. End of the day we are all Mister. That does take me to a time where I was talking to a rather well known RAF Officer, due to his extra curicular activities, in a mess where I was a guest. He asked me what I had done in the RAF. I mentioned my ex rank then. The question was then, why I was in the mess? "Because I am a Mister". Took a couple of times to be said, before he understood.

or Miss


My mate regularly used to shuttle senior RAF officers around in a Company aircraft when they were visiting certain facilities regarding RAF Contracts... he often said he would be chatting away to them about the RAF but sadly never got the opportunity to tell them he used to be an SAC, they just seemed to naturally assume he’d been an officer.