Linton on Ouse : The end of an era
Ah, the snake. Was it not John C., told them it had to go?
I seem to remember that the fish also proved to be a problem. Was there not a feeling that whenever the studes came into the crew room and found one 'floating' that some poor sole (pun?) would get the 'chop' in the very near future?
Was I the only instructor that thought the Systems Approach to Flying Training was a bit of a power grab by the Education Branch?
Ticking all those boxes after each sortie seemed such a waste of time, when you and Bloggs had a pretty good idea on how the day had gone as it was.
I seem to remember that the fish also proved to be a problem. Was there not a feeling that whenever the studes came into the crew room and found one 'floating' that some poor sole (pun?) would get the 'chop' in the very near future?
Was I the only instructor that thought the Systems Approach to Flying Training was a bit of a power grab by the Education Branch?
Ticking all those boxes after each sortie seemed such a waste of time, when you and Bloggs had a pretty good idea on how the day had gone as it was.
staircase,
As a recipient of the training under the Systems Approach I am inclined to agree. I found the Ground School in particular to be a box-ticking exercise; very little of the stuff I'd not been familiar with prior to starting actually stuck (flight instruments, engines, fuel, hydraulics in my case). I had to wait until doing the ATPL course during extended post-Loan-Service leave (14 weeks!) 7 years later before I actually understood much of it - just in time for my own CFS(H) course which definitely cemented things in place
When it came to harbingers-of-doom I was surprised how superstitious many of my course-mates seemed to be - apparently 9 Course used to refer to a particular instrumental track (Doina da Jale by Gheorge Zamfir - as used in the film "Picnic at Hanging Rock" that came out around that time) as "The Chopping Song" and would rush to turn the music orft if it came on the radio lest yet another of their number fall by the wayside.
As a recipient of the training under the Systems Approach I am inclined to agree. I found the Ground School in particular to be a box-ticking exercise; very little of the stuff I'd not been familiar with prior to starting actually stuck (flight instruments, engines, fuel, hydraulics in my case). I had to wait until doing the ATPL course during extended post-Loan-Service leave (14 weeks!) 7 years later before I actually understood much of it - just in time for my own CFS(H) course which definitely cemented things in place
When it came to harbingers-of-doom I was surprised how superstitious many of my course-mates seemed to be - apparently 9 Course used to refer to a particular instrumental track (Doina da Jale by Gheorge Zamfir - as used in the film "Picnic at Hanging Rock" that came out around that time) as "The Chopping Song" and would rush to turn the music orft if it came on the radio lest yet another of their number fall by the wayside.
Argh, you've just brought back memories of their terrifying 'Emancipation' Disco's where blokes would huddle in groups at the bar trying to avoid getting asked to dance until we'd drunk them all pretty! Yes, OK I'm no 'oil painting' myself :-)
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Thud, I’m afraid I can’t recall anything about your trandem!
JC might have had the final word about the snake, but I think it was a course decision to move it to a new home. The majority were actually more attached to its intended prey!
Over the winter break, there apparently was a power cut. The heating bulbs in the snake’s tank went off and didn’t reset when the power came back on. On our return to the Sqn, the snake had gone AWOL. He’d somehow forced the lid open. We searched in vain. Then there was an almighty scream - the cleaner had gone into the entrance lobby to collect her sweeping brush and Hissing Sid appeared at face level. He’d gone up between the back of some lockers and the wall and found a heating pipe to curl up next to, to keep himself warm.
JC might have had the final word about the snake, but I think it was a course decision to move it to a new home. The majority were actually more attached to its intended prey!
Over the winter break, there apparently was a power cut. The heating bulbs in the snake’s tank went off and didn’t reset when the power came back on. On our return to the Sqn, the snake had gone AWOL. He’d somehow forced the lid open. We searched in vain. Then there was an almighty scream - the cleaner had gone into the entrance lobby to collect her sweeping brush and Hissing Sid appeared at face level. He’d gone up between the back of some lockers and the wall and found a heating pipe to curl up next to, to keep himself warm.
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Leeming
I have noted elsewhere my thoughts on the nasty atmosphere which I encountered on my Leeming BFTS course in 1967/68. Even then Linton seemed far more enjoyable. I note other comments; Thud and Blunder undertaking an ATPL course on Loan Service leave. I did the same and found the Oxford Ground School to be jolly interesting, albeit framed on the Britannia. The end result gave me 16 years of freelance GA work prior to my redundancy; wallet appreciated the extra readies. Shame that tax and school fees took such a whack. As for JP4, Sycamore will be aware of my delight in my punishment tour which gave me such freedom on the type in UK and Europe.
Ah, ExAscoteer...the Tincano! Yes, a shame it needed a bigger engine to try to meet the RAF Spec. This in turn caused havoc with the Spin characteristics, and gave a period of busy employment to my FW colleagues at Boscombe Down. For my own famil flight (at Linton!) I recall a comfortable inverted spin but an uncomfortable and oscillatory erect spin. Anyway, ironic that it replaced 'the constant speed, variable noise' machine!
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Having said that, he actually died in the sea following his ejection. He was discovered drowned in his lifejacket tangled in his parachute rigging some 2 hours after the accident.
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Ex Ascoteer yes but strictly a member of the Mr Whippy constant thrust variable noise machine. No single engine props for me. I preferred things with four fans and then only because they didn't make them with five.
aeroid,
Yes, he conducted my JP3A FHT on 25 Jul 77; he also expressed amusement on hearing that my future course-mate on 2FTS was to be one David H-R, with whom he'd served on Canberras previously. My Flt Cdr on 1 Sqn was JG, who a couple of years later returned to rotary and was my boss on A Flt 72 Sqn
Yes, he conducted my JP3A FHT on 25 Jul 77; he also expressed amusement on hearing that my future course-mate on 2FTS was to be one David H-R, with whom he'd served on Canberras previously. My Flt Cdr on 1 Sqn was JG, who a couple of years later returned to rotary and was my boss on A Flt 72 Sqn
Thud,
I do not know the officer of whom you speak. I do know that if you don't put good people into recruiting and training, all you succeed in doing is dragging everyone down to the same level of mediocrity. I am reminded of my time at the Towers (on a GE), when there was only one member of staff who went on to be relatively senior (gp capt) and even he was uninspiring. And a JP QFI who was barely able to fly the aircraft well enough to teach - a Victor co-pilot deemed unsuitable for command but whose ineptitude was acceptable as a handicap for those at the earliest stages of their flying careers. As ye sow....
I do not know the officer of whom you speak. I do know that if you don't put good people into recruiting and training, all you succeed in doing is dragging everyone down to the same level of mediocrity. I am reminded of my time at the Towers (on a GE), when there was only one member of staff who went on to be relatively senior (gp capt) and even he was uninspiring. And a JP QFI who was barely able to fly the aircraft well enough to teach - a Victor co-pilot deemed unsuitable for command but whose ineptitude was acceptable as a handicap for those at the earliest stages of their flying careers. As ye sow....
Thud,
I do not know the officer of whom you speak. I do know that if you don't put good people into recruiting and training, all you succeed in doing is dragging everyone down to the same level of mediocrity. I am reminded of my time at the Towers (on a GE), when there was only one member of staff who went on to be relatively senior (gp capt) and even he was uninspiring. And a JP QFI who was barely able to fly the aircraft well enough to teach - a Victor co-pilot deemed unsuitable for command but whose ineptitude was acceptable as a handicap for those at the earliest stages of their flying careers. As ye sow....
I do not know the officer of whom you speak. I do know that if you don't put good people into recruiting and training, all you succeed in doing is dragging everyone down to the same level of mediocrity. I am reminded of my time at the Towers (on a GE), when there was only one member of staff who went on to be relatively senior (gp capt) and even he was uninspiring. And a JP QFI who was barely able to fly the aircraft well enough to teach - a Victor co-pilot deemed unsuitable for command but whose ineptitude was acceptable as a handicap for those at the earliest stages of their flying careers. As ye sow....
But if the suggestion is that JC (Crayfish) was uninspiring or unpopular, then I couldn’t DISAGREE more ! I didn’t know JC at Linton but I knew him in the Bulldog world and subsequently in a far off sandy place, full of ex- RAF QFIs earning a fortune. The JC I knew well was a super chap; John had a great sense of humour, he was very much a social asset at parties and functions and he was always extremely popular with his students. To those who flew with him, and who might be wondering where he is now, I can tell you that he splits his time between his new home in New Zealand (8 month of the year) and his UK pad in Lincolnshire. I hope to have a catch up beer with him sometime this summer.
Happy days for me at Linton, back in 73-74, with a good bunch of QFIs on 1 Sqn 🤗
Delighted to hear that John (still 'sir' to me...) is thriving, and that he has the prospect of 2/3 of his time in Aotearoa to get over the exigencies of life in Lincolnshire. He was certainly highly regarded, and respected, by my coursemates and me - you knew you'd been put through the wringer when he conducted a test, but he pitched it exactly right and provided enormous encouragement to me as an underconfident ex-squaddie. Yes, I did encounter one or 2 interesting QFIs (I heard from fellow students about ex-Herc and ex-Victor tanker instructors and their odd little ways) on 1 Sqn - but I was fortunate enough to be shepherded through the course by some excellent A2s. Oh, and JC was absolutely right about David H-R - a real character who was admired in the Puma world; could've gone far but chose not to.
As an aside, in those days of "confidential" reporting we never got to see what actually went into our 5000s. Ten years after finishing at 1 FTS I found myself on loan to the AAC as QHI on an independent Squadron in Cambridgeshire; in the Army, there was no secrecy with their system, everyone had the right to access their records. As custodian of the 5000s for the unit, I spent a while having a look through my own records - fascinating
. Some real stitch-up reports after flights where, for example, the debrief had been conducted between unstrapping from the Wessex and arriving back in the hangar(!). However, when I went back as far as 1 FTS I learned just how much effort had been put in by the training staff on my behalf. I discovered how much I owed to the previously-mentioned JG as well as messrs SC and DH-E; still grateful
As an aside, in those days of "confidential" reporting we never got to see what actually went into our 5000s. Ten years after finishing at 1 FTS I found myself on loan to the AAC as QHI on an independent Squadron in Cambridgeshire; in the Army, there was no secrecy with their system, everyone had the right to access their records. As custodian of the 5000s for the unit, I spent a while having a look through my own records - fascinating
. Some real stitch-up reports after flights where, for example, the debrief had been conducted between unstrapping from the Wessex and arriving back in the hangar(!). However, when I went back as far as 1 FTS I learned just how much effort had been put in by the training staff on my behalf. I discovered how much I owed to the previously-mentioned JG as well as messrs SC and DH-E; still grateful
Fully agree Idle with your assessment of JC from my recollections of him as an instructor on UAS and again from coming across him in said sandy place some 20+ years later. Glad to hear that all is well with him in these strange times.
John Boxer - V Force then QFI JPs, I shared an office with him at Scampton (CFS) 88-89 and then by chance ran into him again a few years later when I'd escaped to BA and John was heading out to Saudi on one of the BAe instructing deals.
Edit to add:
Just had a "umm" moment this morning, checked logbooks, and I see I flew with a Bernie Mills, ex-Jags, at BA on the 744 about 20 years ago...
Last edited by wiggy; 14th Mar 2021 at 10:05.
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Re: post 76. That was definitely 21 Course. Left to right: John Hawker, Duncan Davidson, Dick Evans, John Cathie (front), Roy Bouch, Pete Embling, Steve Gorton (front), Bob Middlemas, Graham Hilliard, Paul Bennett and Steve Belcher. I think Phil Roberts joined the course and maybe Geoff Currums? Most of those guys would have been from 310 course at Henlow, John Cathie being Sword of Honour. Wonder where everyone is now?
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baddowboy,
I was also on 310 IOT Course at Henlow and should have been on 21 Course BFTS. Instead was sent to Honington* on a holding post until 22 Cse, I think for no better reason that my surname is towards the rear end of the alphabet.
[*What an utterly miserable time I had at Honington on the Buccaneer OCU. Arrived on a Sunday afternoon and was put straight on the ops desk the following morning, mainly working solo. I worked there for 12 hours straight with very little prior briefing on what it was all about. I was allowed no lunch breaks. I was bollocked at every turn for not knowing stuff that no-one had bothered to brief me about. For example: Squawk box beeps: (Sqn Boss) "Book me a LEPUS and TOSS at Jurby!" "Book you a what Sir, and where?". "ARE YOU DEAF? - I SAID A LEPUS AND TOSS AT JURBY!" I had no idea what this was! When I had to ask I was made to feel like a total idiot.
I left there after a couple of months with a very nasty taste in my mouth, confidence at a very low ebb, and a fear of EVER getting posted to Buccaneers. My time there nearly put me off the RAF entirely, before I'd even begun].
I was also on 310 IOT Course at Henlow and should have been on 21 Course BFTS. Instead was sent to Honington* on a holding post until 22 Cse, I think for no better reason that my surname is towards the rear end of the alphabet.
[*What an utterly miserable time I had at Honington on the Buccaneer OCU. Arrived on a Sunday afternoon and was put straight on the ops desk the following morning, mainly working solo. I worked there for 12 hours straight with very little prior briefing on what it was all about. I was allowed no lunch breaks. I was bollocked at every turn for not knowing stuff that no-one had bothered to brief me about. For example: Squawk box beeps: (Sqn Boss) "Book me a LEPUS and TOSS at Jurby!" "Book you a what Sir, and where?". "ARE YOU DEAF? - I SAID A LEPUS AND TOSS AT JURBY!" I had no idea what this was! When I had to ask I was made to feel like a total idiot.
I left there after a couple of months with a very nasty taste in my mouth, confidence at a very low ebb, and a fear of EVER getting posted to Buccaneers. My time there nearly put me off the RAF entirely, before I'd even begun].