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Old Lockheed "Starfighter" story

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Old Lockheed "Starfighter" story

Old 16th Oct 2020, 15:30
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Angel Old Lockheed "Starfighter" story

In the 1970’s the Luftwaffe where operating the Lockheed 104G Starfighter.

Northern Germany was a low level training area sometimes as low as 250 feet !!

A British Army helicopter was flying south with the Chaplain to the Forces as pax.

Out of nowhere two Starfighters went under the helicopter from the right.

“jesus christ !!” shouted the pilot.

A voice from back seat “He heard you”

Last edited by rogerk; 16th Oct 2020 at 15:44. Reason: Bad spelling !
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 15:58
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I imagine there was a BoE to establish Hooter blame...
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 18:55
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They wouldn't have gone underneath a Royal Air Force helicopter.
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 20:18
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
They wouldn't have gone underneath a Royal Air Force helicopter.
Touche FED. Nice one!

CG
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 20:20
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A Buccaneer would...
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 20:21
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250ft?

Jag pilots got nosebleeds that high.....
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 20:29
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
250ft?

Jag pilots got nosebleeds that high.....
Well the'd struggle to get higher without tanking...

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Old 16th Oct 2020, 20:55
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As "Crabair" fly sidewise

Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
They wouldn't have gone underneath a Royal Air Force helicopter.
e

.... they would have aborted in utter amazement !!
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 21:11
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low level Vulcan

Back in the 1970's I was spraying vineyards with a Bell47 helicopter on the Moselle River near Trier.
Our landing spots were located higher up on the vineyard hills overlooking the river.
During refueling, a Vulcan passed below us along the river.
Amazing...What a sight & sound...Beautiful!
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 21:37
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The air control orders (ACOs) for RAF helicopters in (West) Germany back in those Cold War days usually stated not above 150 feet agl. That was the whole of the country. Fixed wing had to be not below 250 feet, to give a 100 foot separation. In published low flying areas, or areas designated as exercise areas, or areas which crews were deemed to have become familiarised with, we could transit at 50 feet agl. For certain parts of a flight there was no height limit, only a ten metre MSC, minimum (lateral) separation clearance. We regularly trained to fly under wires. Minimum clearances for that were 6 metres above, 3 metres laterally from a pylon, 2 metres below (to avoid the possibility of HT arcing through the airframe).

It was quite normal to get “bounced” by fast jets looking for training targets to play with. F-104s and F-4s were relatively easy to deal with, you could spot them miles away by their trail of black exhaust smoke and even if they saw you they were in the next county by the time they had turned round to get a bead on you. G-91s were more difficult to see, difficult to lose and flown by mad Belgians! Harrier pilots usually had to be told where we were....

Glad to have been part of it, but I wouldn’t want my kids doing it!
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 23:39
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I flew to qualify for the ppl amongst that stuff.....
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 00:59
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Doing powerline inspections in the Blue Mountains of NSW, my normal crew was a front-seat map-reader with all the poles numbered on his map, and a back-seat observer looking for faults, we were just above pole height. On this flight, the dumb fat powerline boss demanded to come along to see how it was done, but I parked him in the rear right of the B206 where he couldn't see much. After an hour or so, as we cruised along a ridge above the wires, DFB shouts, "F**k that was close!"
The rest of us, wondering what DFB was on about, asked "What was close?"
"That jet! It just missed us!"
Yeah, yeah, sure it did, us experts didn't see a thing.
Until the second F-18 scorched across the ridge in front of me.
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 03:04
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I can safely say, that, gliding during the week in that era around Germany / Holland / Belgium could be a shade "invigorating " when looking down ( as well as up and around ) because not everybody was playing at low level.....
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 08:06
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Later in life I was driving a Beford 4 tonner to Spadeadam. Driving along those narrow roads close to the base, this Tornado with reheat engaged came screaming overhead at what seems 2 foot above the truck. I didn’t see it coming as it was from behind. I instinctively ducked and nearly crashed the newly refurbished 49k leaving the road. Funny now but at the time............
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 08:19
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My RAFC Dick 'Whizzbang' was on a dual LL trip somewhere in LFA17 (as it was then), when his ex-RAFG QFI decided to demonstrate 'real low flying'.

A few minutes later Dick came up with the immortal words "Left, 10 o'clock, high - one Landrover, no threat!"
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 08:59
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FED and Treadigraph - I can attest to the Bucc going even lower. Just about 100ft, turning steeply round a hill, looked down to see Buccaneer passing underneath with the back seater looking up - and waving two fingers!
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 09:27
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G 91s flown by Belgians? Not the ones we used to fight from Gutersloh, they were the only thing that could live with the Lightning in a turning bout at low level. The Buccs thought they could out turn us but really, get them to roll and pull at the same time and anything could happen aerodynamically, very amusing.
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 09:46
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Originally Posted by Firestreak View Post
G 91s flown by Belgians? Not the ones we used to fight from Gutersloh, they were the only thing that could live with the Lightning in a turning bout at low level. The Buccs thought they could out turn us but really, get them to roll and pull at the same time and anything could happen aerodynamically, very amusing.
Yep, G-91 only ever operated by the GAF, IAF and the Portuguese AF.

Interesting you say that about the G-91 and the Lightning, as on a motoring forum the other day, I was mildly amused at an off topic aviation post where by one 'spotter' was trying to tell another that the Lightning had a poor rate of turn and couldn't turn below 300kts.......I don't think either was old enough to have ever seen the beast fly, let alone anything else, but it made me laugh.

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Old 17th Oct 2020, 10:18
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Reminds me of the comment, IIRC, from “Roger Bacon” the esteemed Flight International contributor. The F104 in GAF service had a pretty dire safety record, so his comment was.,. “ how do you start a scrap metal business? Buy a field in Germany and wait”
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 10:20
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Yes the Lightning turned very well. Mind you when flying low level intercepts and dogfighting, the fuel did not last very long!
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