Old Lockheed "Starfighter" story
Hail Hum!
As you say, happy days.
I was duty pilot in the tower at Güt for the departure of 4 X Italian 104s on one occasion. # 4 dropped back badly on take-off and they disappeared into the murk as a bit of a gaggle. Shortly afterwards, we were treated to a flypast by 3 with no sign of #4. I advised the local controller to look out for a "waz" and sure enough, he pitched up heading straight for the tower - but he had the gear down and was going really slowly.
It transpired that he had had a burner failure on take-off, followed by a hydraulic failure, followed by a radio failure! He brought it back for a v high speed, flapless landing, which he achieved nicely on the westerly runway. Unfortunately, the drag 'chute dropped out on the runway, when he selected it and his hook hung up about 2ft above the concrete, so he missed the upwind wire.
At this stage, the local assistant raised the barrier (not advised for a 104) and the top wire caught the arrestor hook as it passed over it at c 100 kts. The Starfighter came to rest just before the river Emms, in the grass, with a collapsed nose-leg and a very white Italian pilot, requesting a change of underwear!
Mog
As you say, happy days.
I was duty pilot in the tower at Güt for the departure of 4 X Italian 104s on one occasion. # 4 dropped back badly on take-off and they disappeared into the murk as a bit of a gaggle. Shortly afterwards, we were treated to a flypast by 3 with no sign of #4. I advised the local controller to look out for a "waz" and sure enough, he pitched up heading straight for the tower - but he had the gear down and was going really slowly.
It transpired that he had had a burner failure on take-off, followed by a hydraulic failure, followed by a radio failure! He brought it back for a v high speed, flapless landing, which he achieved nicely on the westerly runway. Unfortunately, the drag 'chute dropped out on the runway, when he selected it and his hook hung up about 2ft above the concrete, so he missed the upwind wire.
At this stage, the local assistant raised the barrier (not advised for a 104) and the top wire caught the arrestor hook as it passed over it at c 100 kts. The Starfighter came to rest just before the river Emms, in the grass, with a collapsed nose-leg and a very white Italian pilot, requesting a change of underwear!
Mog
My Father did his National Service in the RAF and joined the UK Atomic Energy Authority at Harwell in (I think) 1955. He tells the story that a USAF F-104 landed at Harwell, having got lost looking for Upper Heyford. I think this must have been in the early 1960s.
The WW2 Harwell runway was rather short, and after various debates on whether to dismantle the Starfighter and truck it out, or try to fly it out, the decision was made to do the latter. A crack USAF test pilot was brought in, and JATO bottles were attached to help get it off the ground. Unfortunately the JATOs on one side failed to ignite, the aircraft veered sharply off the runway and ended up nose down in the deep foundations being dug for a new and substantial building. He claims that all the staff on site came out to watch the events unfold. Not long after the Harwell runway was covered in soil a foot or so deep and grassed over, to stop anyone else landing there by mistake.
Does anyone know if this account is in anyway true? I can't find any reference to it on-line.
The WW2 Harwell runway was rather short, and after various debates on whether to dismantle the Starfighter and truck it out, or try to fly it out, the decision was made to do the latter. A crack USAF test pilot was brought in, and JATO bottles were attached to help get it off the ground. Unfortunately the JATOs on one side failed to ignite, the aircraft veered sharply off the runway and ended up nose down in the deep foundations being dug for a new and substantial building. He claims that all the staff on site came out to watch the events unfold. Not long after the Harwell runway was covered in soil a foot or so deep and grassed over, to stop anyone else landing there by mistake.
Does anyone know if this account is in anyway true? I can't find any reference to it on-line.
Not a 104 but this is the one I think... http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/...tion.part1.pdf. Page 12.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 31st Oct 2020 at 19:31. Reason: Add page number
I believe I may have been there that day & seen it from a different angle.. I had just taken off on a dual arrival check in a Harrier when Batty in the back suddenly exclaimed ‘I HAVE CONTROL’ .. the aircraft lurched forward alarmingly and I saw (and heard) a very large 104’s Burning reheat pass a few feet over my head, an image I shall never forget..
Fortunately JB in the back had far more SA than I and suspected something was up - he spotted the 104 in the mirror just as he went past the tower.. The 104 guy never saw us 😳
A couple of years I remember looking at a 104 in a hangar at Gutersloh that had had a mid-air with a Jaguar (I think part of the tail ended up in a swimming pool at Warendorf) his pitot was bent right back, little other damage - I recall the Jag guy (Who I subsequently worked on another Jag mid-air BOI with) did not even Realise what had happened until he landed at Bruggen..
Happy days
Fortunately JB in the back had far more SA than I and suspected something was up - he spotted the 104 in the mirror just as he went past the tower.. The 104 guy never saw us 😳
A couple of years I remember looking at a 104 in a hangar at Gutersloh that had had a mid-air with a Jaguar (I think part of the tail ended up in a swimming pool at Warendorf) his pitot was bent right back, little other damage - I recall the Jag guy (Who I subsequently worked on another Jag mid-air BOI with) did not even Realise what had happened until he landed at Bruggen..
Happy days
Bruce Cogram was killed, the pilot under check ejected and survived.
lsh
Avoid imitations
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I believe I may have been there that day & seen it from a different angle.. I had just taken off on a dual arrival check in a Harrier when Batty in the back suddenly exclaimed ‘I HAVE CONTROL’ .. the aircraft lurched forward alarmingly and I saw (and heard) a very large 104’s Burning reheat pass a few feet over my head, an image I shall never forget..
Fortunately JB in the back had far more SA than I and suspected something was up - he spotted the 104 in the mirror just as he went past the tower.. The 104 guy never saw us 😳
A couple of years I remember looking at a 104 in a hangar at Gutersloh that had had a mid-air with a Jaguar (I think part of the tail ended up in a swimming pool at Warendorf) his pitot was bent right back, little other damage - I recall the Jag guy (Who I subsequently worked on another Jag mid-air BOI with) did not even Realise what had happened until he landed at Bruggen..
Happy days
Fortunately JB in the back had far more SA than I and suspected something was up - he spotted the 104 in the mirror just as he went past the tower.. The 104 guy never saw us 😳
A couple of years I remember looking at a 104 in a hangar at Gutersloh that had had a mid-air with a Jaguar (I think part of the tail ended up in a swimming pool at Warendorf) his pitot was bent right back, little other damage - I recall the Jag guy (Who I subsequently worked on another Jag mid-air BOI with) did not even Realise what had happened until he landed at Bruggen..
Happy days
As a Maintenance Instructor for Eastern Air Lines at JFK, I got a pleasant duty to run some DC-8-63 training in SJU. They put me up in a pleasant hotel that ovewrloked a runway. Nice balcony on the room. I was pretty amazed when, with huge noise, a F-104 Starfighter went down the runway followed by another. The mechanics I was training told me the Puerto Rican Air National Guard (PRANG) was flying them and providing air defense against any possible Cuban adventures. A bit later I saw them back landing on the same runway trailing a drag chute. It must have been in 1968 that I saw them.
Now many years later, having outlived Eastern Air Lines and living in Ft Collins in Colorado, I had an opportunity to visit the Wings over the Rockies Air Museum in Denver. They have an interesting collection including a pedestal mounted B-52 outside. Inside the old hangar from Lowry AFB, they have a Douglas B-18 Bolo, a North American B-1 Lancer (I believe a prototype) and, pointy nose and thin sharp winged F-104. A volunteer was working on her and I engaged him in some conversation. I mentioned that the only time I had ever seen an F-104 outside of in a museum was in Puerto Rico. Turned out that was one of the PRANG (unfortunate combination that) aircraft. Clean, polished and dentless, she still looks to be one of the wickedest fighters ever. I have read however that they didn't do well in the Pakistan - India dustup years back. Suspect that the turning radius and limited fuel load may have contributed. Any truth in that?
Now many years later, having outlived Eastern Air Lines and living in Ft Collins in Colorado, I had an opportunity to visit the Wings over the Rockies Air Museum in Denver. They have an interesting collection including a pedestal mounted B-52 outside. Inside the old hangar from Lowry AFB, they have a Douglas B-18 Bolo, a North American B-1 Lancer (I believe a prototype) and, pointy nose and thin sharp winged F-104. A volunteer was working on her and I engaged him in some conversation. I mentioned that the only time I had ever seen an F-104 outside of in a museum was in Puerto Rico. Turned out that was one of the PRANG (unfortunate combination that) aircraft. Clean, polished and dentless, she still looks to be one of the wickedest fighters ever. I have read however that they didn't do well in the Pakistan - India dustup years back. Suspect that the turning radius and limited fuel load may have contributed. Any truth in that?
Not my story, but as told to me ; Lighting pilot flying over West Germany in the 70’s (can’t remember whether doing a CAP or just a random Nav-Ex) when ATC call him up and ask if he’s interested in some trade. My mate says of course and is given a steer for an unidentified low level fast mover down by the E. Germán border somewhere. “Brilliant‘ says matey and catches up with the traffic. Turns out to be a lost GAF Starfighter shooting along at a high rate of knots in the wrong direction. How does my mate know he was lost? Easy.....the Starfighter pilot has his map unfolded and is turning and folding it trying to orientate himself. Matey decides to sit on his wing and wait and see how long it takes the Starfighter pilot to notice him. Seconds pass before the pilot glances to the side and glimpses the Lightning sat on his wing ....cue a seriously hard G pull-up by the poor guy as he reacts instinctively and pulls to the heavens!.
Some 42 years ago, we were flying a Vulcan over the Med. This was one of the last SOLAR FLARE exercises from Luqa, but our jets were so old and fatigued that we spent much of the exercise doing boring Maritime Radar Reconaissance (aka 'boat spotting') at around 40000ft.
The SOP was that the Co-pilot (me) and Nav Rad would work on 'conference intercom', with the other 3 on normal intercom. As I was dutifully noting down the details from the Nav Rad, 'something' shot past us on the right, with a dazzling white contrail. Not more than about a (Vulcan) wingspan clearance, at a guess and undoubtedly supersonic.
It was obvious (at least to me) that it was an Italian F-104. Back to normal intercom and "TFFT", exclaimed the Captain (whose recce skills were woeful),"I thought it was a Libyan Flogger!". TR+G didn't seem to be working, so after dialling up 243.0, we were able to talk to a somewhat bemused Italian controller "My boys, they say you looka very nice. They try very 'ard to catcha you" We advised him that his 'boys' also looked very nice, but we were on our way (eventually) back to Malta. "OK, OK, ciao!" and back to normal. It seems that the Nav Plot had taken us quite a long way south, then back in what looked like a direct track towards Italy, hence they'd scrambled Q!!
The SOP was that the Co-pilot (me) and Nav Rad would work on 'conference intercom', with the other 3 on normal intercom. As I was dutifully noting down the details from the Nav Rad, 'something' shot past us on the right, with a dazzling white contrail. Not more than about a (Vulcan) wingspan clearance, at a guess and undoubtedly supersonic.
It was obvious (at least to me) that it was an Italian F-104. Back to normal intercom and "TFFT", exclaimed the Captain (whose recce skills were woeful),"I thought it was a Libyan Flogger!". TR+G didn't seem to be working, so after dialling up 243.0, we were able to talk to a somewhat bemused Italian controller "My boys, they say you looka very nice. They try very 'ard to catcha you" We advised him that his 'boys' also looked very nice, but we were on our way (eventually) back to Malta. "OK, OK, ciao!" and back to normal. It seems that the Nav Plot had taken us quite a long way south, then back in what looked like a direct track towards Italy, hence they'd scrambled Q!!
I remember the two F104's at the Odiham families day in the late 70's, they were lower than anything I'd seen before at a show, really low and the first one past almost right in front of the crowd line, the wingman was over head the crowd line...lots of screaming and crying kids I seem to remember.
