USMC Mid-Air - F-35/KC-130
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For those interested in the update for the Eglin crash of an F-35A, that post was moved to the F-35 general thread
EDIT TO ADD:
Of interest from that accident is a possible problem with FBW implementation that may or may not be related to this accident.
EDIT TO ADD:
Of interest from that accident is a possible problem with FBW implementation that may or may not be related to this accident.
Originally Posted by F-35A Eglin Crash Article
The second main cause was the tail flight control surfaces “conflicting” with the pilot’s apparently correct efforts to recover the jet after it bounced on the runway, a problem the Air Force said was a “previously undiscovered anomaly in the aircraft’s flight control logic.” The plane and pilot “quickly fell out of sync,” as the flight computer commanded nose down while the pilot commanded nose up, attempting to abort the landing and go around. Sensing that he was being “ignored” by the airplane, the pilot ejected, sustaining significant but non-life-threatening injuries.
Non standard RT in this situation ? Give them a break , they achieved a perfect result.
Lonewolf50
yes, I know that Megan disagrees with what you claim the USN use.
you say
his post
then you say
so which is it? Use MAYDAY (as the rest of the world does) or have two different procedures depending on if you are VFR or under radar control?
So there you go, crab; now you actually know something that you didn't know before.
you say
In a radar environment (Radar Contact), or positive radio contact with a tower/RDO, standard procedure for a distressed or urgent situation is to declare an emergency.
An example of an emergency voice report in a radar environment or positive radio contact with a tower/RDO is as follows:
"[Call sign] is declaring an emergency. Chip light, 5 miles east of Brewton at 4,500 feet. Executing a Precautionary Emergency Landing at Brewton."
An example of an emergency voice report in a radar environment or positive radio contact with a tower/RDO is as follows:
"[Call sign] is declaring an emergency. Chip light, 5 miles east of Brewton at 4,500 feet. Executing a Precautionary Emergency Landing at Brewton."
Crab, when with the USN the standard MAYDAY/PAN applied, nothing else.
And advantage of using Mayday as a preface in one's R/T when declaring an emergency:
Even if you are already in contact with a controller, when you are communicating on a cluttered / very busy freq that has lots of radio traffic, you'll usually get most participants to STFU for a bit so that whomever called Mayday can get their message out.
Even if you are already in contact with a controller, when you are communicating on a cluttered / very busy freq that has lots of radio traffic, you'll usually get most participants to STFU for a bit so that whomever called Mayday can get their message out.
Not your place to do so. This was an accident concerning two US built aircraft, operated by an arm of the US military operating in US airspace. They don't need your advice in how to conduct their affairs. The successful conclusion of what could have been a multiple fatality accident suggests to me they know what they are doing
RetiredBA/BY , the Department of Defense Flight Information Handbook section A-2 states the correct procedures for US Military aircrew. The fact that some choose not to follow DoD recommendations is a matter for US Stanevals to review.
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As a Brit, to my fellow Brits. Kindly stop with the grammar police inputs to this thread. The pilot of the 130 did an amazing job, and frankly whether he said "Mayday", "Pan" or "Emergency", he handled things amazingly well. We should all care more about the flying skills than the grammar skills. In this case the pilots of the Herc showed us all how to handle an obviously major emergency. Well done to the entire crew.
Not your place to do so. This was an accident concerning two US built aircraft, operated by an arm of the US military operating in US airspace. They don't need your advice in how to conduct their affairs. The successful conclusion of what could have been a multiple fatality accident suggests to me they know what they are doing .
Non standard RT in this situation ? Give them a break , they achieved a perfect result.
Non standard RT in this situation ? Give them a break , they achieved a perfect result.
If anyone can point to where the word "emergency" is a regulatory approved method of declaring your state, military or civil, I'll shout the bar, I do note though the procedures are merely "recommended". As Beags points out it's all spelled out in the Department of Defense Flight Information Handbook section A-2. US Military manual and even the UK gets specific mention. 
Following correct as of March 2018.
https://www.columbus.af.mil/Portals/...-14-165719-010
Following correct as of March 2018.https://www.columbus.af.mil/Portals/...-14-165719-010
R/T Pedantry Cluster Fandango
Reminds me of theologians arguing over how many angels can dance on a pinhead
I look forward to the exploding heads when the first Marine F-35 returns to the Queen Lizzie. “Yank 01 declaring an emergency, headed back to mother“.
8 pages minimum.
8 pages minimum.
Appreciate that the post has gone off topic but this tends to happen with bones of contention particularly when someone feels threatened even when it is written in black and white i.e. “I don’t care what the rules are we do it our way”
F@cking Tweetle Beetle infestation here....
Very well, then
Mr. Knox, sir.
Let's have a little talk
about tweetle beetles....
What do you know
about tweetle beetles?
well...
When tweetle beetles fight,
it's called
a tweetle beetle battle.
And when they
battle in a puddle,
it's a tweetle
beetle puddle battle.
AND when tweetle beetles
battle with paddles in a puddle,
they call it a tweetle
beetle puddle paddle battle.
AND...
When beetles battle beetles
in a puddle paddle battle
and the beetle battle puddle
is a puddle in a bottle...
...they call this
a tweetle beetle
bottle puddle
paddle battle muddle.
AND...
When beetles
fight these battles
in a bottle
with their paddles
and the bottle's
on a poodle
and the poodle's
eating noodles...
...they call this
a muddle puddle
tweetle poodle
beetle noodle
bottle paddle battle.
AND...
Now wait
a minute
Mr. Socks Fox!
When a fox is
in the bottle where
the tweetle beetls battle
with their paddles
in a puddle on a
noodle-eating poodle.
THIS is what they call...
...a tweetle beetle
noodle poodle bottles
paddled muddled duddled
fuddled wuddled
fox in socks, sir!
Fox in socks,
our game us done, sir.
Thank you for
a lot of fun, sir.
Very well, then
Mr. Knox, sir.
Let's have a little talk
about tweetle beetles....
What do you know
about tweetle beetles?
well...
When tweetle beetles fight,
it's called
a tweetle beetle battle.
And when they
battle in a puddle,
it's a tweetle
beetle puddle battle.
AND when tweetle beetles
battle with paddles in a puddle,
they call it a tweetle
beetle puddle paddle battle.
AND...
When beetles battle beetles
in a puddle paddle battle
and the beetle battle puddle
is a puddle in a bottle...
...they call this
a tweetle beetle
bottle puddle
paddle battle muddle.
AND...
When beetles
fight these battles
in a bottle
with their paddles
and the bottle's
on a poodle
and the poodle's
eating noodles...
...they call this
a muddle puddle
tweetle poodle
beetle noodle
bottle paddle battle.
AND...
Now wait
a minute
Mr. Socks Fox!
When a fox is
in the bottle where
the tweetle beetls battle
with their paddles
in a puddle on a
noodle-eating poodle.
THIS is what they call...
...a tweetle beetle
noodle poodle bottles
paddled muddled duddled
fuddled wuddled
fox in socks, sir!
Fox in socks,
our game us done, sir.
Thank you for
a lot of fun, sir.
“Yank 01 declaring an emergency, headed back to mother“
gotta luv tweedle beedle battles.
time to jump in my plane (its a jumbo) and fly away (that'll annoy a few)
Must be a lot of stressed out people with too much time on their hands out there if we are more worried about radio phraseology that figuring out why an F35 rammed a Herc. I just what to know what happened.
time to jump in my plane (its a jumbo) and fly away (that'll annoy a few)
Must be a lot of stressed out people with too much time on their hands out there if we are more worried about radio phraseology that figuring out why an F35 rammed a Herc. I just what to know what happened.
As some have pointed out who gives a damn about RT procedures, the crew brought off a succesful conclusion, no loss of life, to what coukd h ave been catastrophic.
....and its not for Beagle or anyone else, with a similarly self appointed authority or misplaced ego, to start preaching or lecturing to other airforces.
Priorities !
Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 7th Oct 2020 at 16:59.
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Thought you might find this interesting
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2 or 3 other callsigns chipped in on frequency (I'm sure they were trying to be helpful) during the emergency which, unless you are giving a MAYDAY RELAY call, goes against the idea of keeping the frequency completely clear except for the controller and the aircraft in distress.
The controller has to ask if the aircraft has a further emergency (how many do you need!!?) because he didn't go to full mental arousal prompted by a MAYDAY call?
I will reiterate that the crew did a great job landing the aircraft safely - BUT, they were descending quickly, having to pick a field to crash land into, and still being asked questions by ATC which the simple use of a MAYDAY call would likely have pre-empted.
Anyone coming onto the frequency not having heard the initial declaration of emergency would not have known there was anything going wrong and could easily have blocked transmissions unintentionally - prefixing the aircraft CS with MAYDAY each time, prevents that happening.
The controller has to ask if the aircraft has a further emergency (how many do you need!!?) because he didn't go to full mental arousal prompted by a MAYDAY call?
I will reiterate that the crew did a great job landing the aircraft safely - BUT, they were descending quickly, having to pick a field to crash land into, and still being asked questions by ATC which the simple use of a MAYDAY call would likely have pre-empted.
Anyone coming onto the frequency not having heard the initial declaration of emergency would not have known there was anything going wrong and could easily have blocked transmissions unintentionally - prefixing the aircraft CS with MAYDAY each time, prevents that happening.
