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Sir David Jason meets the BBMF

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Sir David Jason meets the BBMF

Old 17th Sep 2020, 20:03
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aeronut View Post
Good point about formation flying the Lancaster. Looked stunning but is this wise? Suddenly flying the old gal In formation isn’t going to help her last longer. All that jostling for position must be more punishing than the last few decades have been for her. After all wasn’t the Lancaster designed and built before long before the lessons of metal fatigue we’re learnt with the comet? Or does that just apply to windows?
Or pressurised airframes perhaps ?
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 16:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land View Post
I thought it a good programme too, but would have preferred to have seen more of the Lancaster as well; especially the inside.
Why would you want to see the Lancaster? Wasn't the programme about the Battle of Britain? In fact, while I'm at it, why does the BBMF have a Lancaster at all? Surely they need to change their name.
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 17:19
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I think the BBMF have 2 Hurricanes.
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 17:37
  #24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MaxR View Post
Why would you want to see the Lancaster? Wasn't the programme about the Battle of Britain? In fact, while I'm at it, why does the BBMF have a Lancaster at all? Surely they need to change their name.
Oh, this could be fun. Nothing like a re-branding exercise.....sort of worked for Windscale to Sellafield after all.

As the BBMF also operates Chipmunks and a Dakota, neither of which participated in the "BoB ", a minor detail you understand, then possibly the RAF Vintage Piston Flight would meet with your approval ?. Or maybe, the RAF Venerable Flying Flight ?.....please, do have a think about this as I'm sure the BBMF would be quite intrigued as to what you feel they should be re-branded as.......and why. Out of interest, you don't have an MBA in Management do you ?

As for the Lanc, well I actually have a connection to the aircraft as it were. In 1977, the first major was carried out and 71 MU were invited to join in. I can say, as it's probably been refurbished since, at one time, the aircraft was flying around with a significant part of my handiwork attached, notably the port flap which I de-skinned, and re-skinned, albeit with a bit of help when it came to nailing the rivets in and generally cleaned up any structure that wasn't being replaced. . Now that really was a labour of love I can assure you. It was actually quite "interesting " at times when we started on the wing upper surface skin....and some of the original pretty green rivets came off by hand sans drill !

Nearly forgot, the programme was well worth watching as other have said.
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 17:44
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Further Thread Drift to allow anecdote

Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
It creates a real problem for the Lanc pilot of course, formating on a much smaller aircraft in front of him. I suspect the Lanc is rather more responsive than the Hastings was but even so, well done indeed!
At least he/she wasn't flying one of the prototypes aka the Manchester Mk.III. As BT308 was basically a Manchester with new wings and 4 engines, the additional throttles and pitch controls were just metal tubes. They gave my informant sore hands even with his leather gloves on. He flew Manchesters operationally with 207 but got the chance to fly BT308 when it was on loan to 44, both squadrons being at Waddo. The controls would have probably drawn blood if he had been formating on a fighter.

Last edited by SLXOwft; 18th Sep 2020 at 17:50. Reason: dodgy keyboard
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 17:47
  #26 (permalink)  
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I believe BBMF would have been gifted the Mosquito by BAe after the 1996 airshow season, had it not met with its sad accident at Barton.
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 21:08
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
I believe BBMF would have been gifted the Mosquito by BAe after the 1996 airshow season, had it not met with its sad accident at Barton.
RR299 was indeed due to join the Flight, and such a shame she was lost beforehand with her crew.

I bet there was going to be a hell of a fight at Coningsby with the fighter pilot ‘girls’ thinking they were more qualified to fly the Mossie than the Bomber ‘boys’! 😄
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 05:48
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Originally Posted by MaxR View Post
Why would you want to see the Lancaster? Wasn't the programme about the Battle of Britain? In fact, while I'm at it, why does the BBMF have a Lancaster at all? Surely they need to change their name.
Your comment does your stock little favour. Extract from Churchill's 'The Few' speech :

"The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day; but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers, who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain."

And you seem to forget the coincidental Battle of the Barges being waged at great cost by Bomber Command in an effort to deny to the enemy the wherewithal to undertake a successful invasion.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 06:14
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MaxR View Post
Surely they need to change their name.
Battle of Britain AND Memorial Flight?

Nah, let's not change for change sake.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 12:58
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land View Post
Your comment does your stock little favour. Extract from Churchill's 'The Few' speech :

"The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day; but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers, who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain."

And you seem to forget the coincidental Battle of the Barges being waged at great cost by Bomber Command in an effort to deny to the enemy the wherewithal to undertake a successful invasion.
James Holland's book 'The Battle of Britain' outlines this part of the campaign not just against the barges but the airfields and seaways with minelaying as well. The night campaign against the airfields was to disrupt the peace of mind and sleep of the aircrews in particular, that they could not just land and forget until next day. This is something the Luftwaffe never did. The losses by Bomber Command are quite horrendous and in particular the young age of many of the fallen and indeed injured. May the RiP.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 08:25
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I am genetically opposed to name changes and rebranding as a general rule, but I have found myself often wondering about whether BBMF is the right name. It strikes me that a name change could open the way for other significant aircraft to be included, with the mosquito being the most obvious. In the post Shoreham world in which we live, the RAF would seem to fit most people’s idea of an appropriate operator of vintage aircraft, and with some imagination, could be funded/“crowdfunded” to do so.
I for one would happily contribute/ subscribe towards keeping a representative fleet of historic aircraft serviceable and ideally airworthy in the right hands.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 09:33
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Originally Posted by falcon900 View Post
I am genetically opposed to name changes and rebranding as a general rule, but I have found myself often wondering about whether BBMF is the right name. It strikes me that a name change could open the way for other significant aircraft to be included, with the mosquito being the most obvious. In the post Shoreham world in which we live, the RAF would seem to fit most people’s idea of an appropriate operator of vintage aircraft, and with some imagination, could be funded/“crowdfunded” to do so.
I for one would happily contribute/ subscribe towards keeping a representative fleet of historic aircraft serviceable and ideally airworthy in the right hands.
Royal Air Force Historic Flight.
Get them a mossie, couple of Hunters, XH558 even?, maybe a Lightning or two...
Little bit of corporate sponsorship, almost pays for itself.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 10:31
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The problem isn't the Flight's name. The RAF sees the BoB as its major historical asset, its USP if you like. By presenting itself in this way it automatically triggers a positive response in the public's mind. Anything that reminds people of the Bombing Offensive for instance would have the opposite effect (or that at least is how I assume the thinking goes).

This conundrum is purely of the RAF's making. It has never stood by Bomber Command, nor in particular its Memorial in London. It took a Bee Gee to push for that, the RAF establishment only associating itself with it when it became a done deal. That is why you are stuck with the RAF BBMF.

Embrace it, you know it makes sense!
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 13:26
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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The programme annoyed me ever so slightly by focussing only on the pilots on board the Lancaster, like the other two blokes had just snook on for a jolly. The Lancaster had 7 crew on each Lancaster, many of whom made the ultimate sacrifice. It was not two pilots and five fellas who fancied a look at Germany from the air, it was a crew of seven.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 14:51
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I did a compass swing on one of the BoB spitfires circa 1975 at Coltishall. My treat was to get a ground tour of the Lanc. In hindsight, I should have held out for a flight in her...ho hum...
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 01:32
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Originally Posted by VictorGolf View Post
I think the BBMF have 2 Hurricanes.
Both old time film stars Reach for the Sky Kenley 1956 and Angels one five before that.Often wonder what happened to the Portuguese Hurricanes that flew over for RFTS, they all went back. The Lanc should remind people that our Bomber force were very combat active before the BoB, with many looses in machines no quite up to the Lanc standard.











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Old 24th Sep 2020, 01:45
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Perhaps the Lancaster's four Merlins add backgound music to the choir.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 07:49
  #38 (permalink)  
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Maxr
Only one Pilot on Lancs unless a second used for experience as second dickie.

My father had a second the day they all got shot down over Belgium. Only 21 so never got his command.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 09:06
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Thread drift but...

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/...itfire-factory

Starts on Monday I believe
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 19:02
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land View Post
Your comment does your stock little favour. Extract from Churchill's 'The Few' speech :

"The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day; but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers, who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain."

And you seem to forget the coincidental Battle of the Barges being waged at great cost by Bomber Command in an effort to deny to the enemy the wherewithal to undertake a successful invasion.
None of which was done by a Lancaster during the BoB so you seem to have spent a great deal of time arguing against a point that you had failed to understand in the first place. My point was not that Bomber Command did not defend Britain but that they didn't do it in a Lancaster in 1940.
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