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Service numbers old or recent?

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Service numbers old or recent?

Old 19th Sep 2020, 09:43
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In summer 1956 the basic number ranges were for regulars 418xxxx and national service 503xxxx. These were applied to all trades air and ground. Exceptions were Boy Entrants, Apprentices and Cranwell entrants having separate number ranges.
Hope this helps.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 19:27
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav
In WW1 the army did not have a system of unique service numbers until some time in 1916. Prior to that they had regimental numbers which in fact started at 1 and were duplicated across the regimental system. Thus there could be a number 456 in the Suffolk Regiment and another in the Norfolk Regiment, and so on. The same applied to corps, although as these tended to be larger than line regiments their numbers often contained up to five digits. The unique service number came in to assist in admin when the army grew in size to several millions. The old gentleman at Catterick would have lost his original three digit number when the new system came in.

In the medal collecting world medals to individuals with low numbers are highly prized. I once had 1914-15 Star named to a number 10, an NCO in the Royal Warwicks, and a chum who specialises in this field has several "number 1s" in his collection. Although army and RAF officers have always had service numbers, these never appear on medals named to officers (check your own!)
Sorry to demur but:
Unique army service numbers were not issued until 1920 +/- a year. Regimental number series had [from memory] seven iterations, the first c. 1836. The Great War Series began in 1881 for all regiments and corps but was generally subject to upper limits 9999 after which a new series should have begun. Many regiments were allowed past 10,000 by 1914, and there was not a new topping after that. Again, many regiments had:
a single series shared by both regular battalions,[or all four, in a few cases]
a separate series for each of their SR/Extra SR battalions
a separate series for each of their TF battalions.
Wartime Kitchener men were deemed to be regulars and used that series. It was quite possible for a slack handful of soldiers, wearing the same cap badge, to have the same number.

I co-wrote the definitive article [so far] on numbering, and the above is from memory. I can, if asked nicely, email copies to interested parties. There is also an internet site which benefits fully from modern connectivities and I can dig that out also.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 10:31
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Very interesting, L-B, I had always thought the unique service number came in during the war, but happy to be corrected. I am sending you a PM with my email address as I would appreciate a copy of the article you refer to. I have been in touch with my medal collecting chum and he tells me he has a fair sized collection of WW1 medals to recipients with 3 digit numbers, including Z-204 to the RFC and 800 to the RAF. He also has quite a few "number ones" including to the RA, RAMC, Rifle Brigade and The Queens,as well as several Indian Army units.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 11:01
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RAF Service numbers are fascinating, as Haraka pointed out there was an algorithm for deducing which letter was allocated as a prefix to the seven numbers.

Step one

Multiply the first number by 8
“ the second by 17
“ the third by 4
“ the fourth by 16
“ the fifth by 2
“ the sixth by 13
“ the seventh by 1

Add them to get ‘Answer A’.

Step two

Divide Answer A by 23 and reduce the number to the nearest integer to ger Answer B.

Step three

Take away Answer B from Answer A,
the result is then applied to the alphabet.

0 = A, 1 = B, 2 = C, 3 = D, etc until 23 = X.

There was a code in the first two digits which defined, Airman (Ground), Airman (Aircrew), Officer (Direct) and Officer (from the ranks). There may have been other codes, but if so, I’ve forgotten them.

My dad was a National Serviceman on entry 109 his number was 2349032 (1947 – 1949)

Mine was in the 8102*** group September 1972.


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Old 24th Sep 2020, 16:26
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My service number, issued in March 1971 was A8093***. When I was commissioned as a VR(T) officer in 1988 I was given the same number but the 'A' was moved from the front to the back.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 17:01
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Originally Posted by HAS59
RAF Service numbers are fascinating, as Haraka pointed out there was an algorithm for deducing which letter was allocated as a prefix to the seven numbers.

Step one

Multiply the first number by 8
“ the second by 17
“ the third by 4
“ the fourth by 16
“ the fifth by 2
“ the sixth by 13
“ the seventh by 1

Add them to get ‘Answer A’.

Step two

Divide Answer A by 23 and reduce the number to the nearest integer to ger Answer B.

Step three

Take away Answer B from Answer A,
the result is then applied to the alphabet.

0 = A, 1 = B, 2 = C, 3 = D, etc until 23 = X.

There was a code in the first two digits which defined, Airman (Ground), Airman (Aircrew), Officer (Direct) and Officer (from the ranks). There may have been other codes, but if so, I’ve forgotten them.

My dad was a National Serviceman on entry 109 his number was 2349032 (1947 – 1949)

Mine was in the 8102*** group September 1972.
Are you sure that the algorithim is correct?

Applying it to my service number answer A is 190, Answer B is then 8. How do you get 6 (check character G) from that?

One other service number I know, my best mate in training, gives Answer A to be 261, Answer B as 11. We need a 5 for him as his number had F as a check character.

Or are my arithmetic skills letting me down?

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Old 24th Sep 2020, 17:53
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When the check digit (letter) for officers was introduced, I was told it was all to do with computing time - the search starts with the letter, which means you are only looking at 1/26 of the records. If you then work backwards through the number, it then apparently only takes 3 or 4 turns of the handle to produce a result. At that point I lost interest!
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 19:22
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L-B, I have sent you a PM requesting your article. One of my grandfathers and his brother both had four digit numbers beginning with 2 having joined up on the declaration of war in 1914.

TTN, My grandfather left me his brother's medal set Pip, Sqeak and Wilfred plus the DCM - unfortunately they went missing while on loan to familly member who died suddenly. I regularly visit my great uncle's grave in France, I greatly regretted not having the medals with me when I did so on the 100th anniversary of his death in action.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 20:08
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When I joined in 1972 as an airman my Number like all others at the time started H8100, then when I was commissioned in 2002 the prefix letter moved to the end of the number. Before I retired in 2010 however the dreaded JPA had arrived and my number disappeared from the computer system. So when I joined the ATC as VR(T) in 2011 I was issued a completely different number with no letter, the strange thing was that if I substitute the 4 with the letter H and rearrange the other numbers I still have the same number.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 20:50
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[QUOTE=Cornish Jack;10885391]Oddly perhaps, I remember my late brother's number as well as mine. He was ex-Air Training Corps so started 351 xxxx.

Are you sure it started 351? I was ex A.T.C and my R.A.F number started 315---- I was told this was for all ex A.T.C.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 21:52
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My service number was preceded by a D and ended in 6. The lad before me had letter C and ended in 5 and the lad after me was E ending in 7. I can remember discussing it at Swinderby.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 21:53
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My late father was in the RAF from 1921 to 1927 in Egypt and Iraq (Mespot, as it was known), as an aircraft fitter on DH9As and Vickers Victorias. His number was 353xxx. I joined in 1956. Mine was 681xxx. That's progress for you.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 02:56
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Originally Posted by Avionker
Are you sure that the algorithm is correct?

Applying it to my service number answer A is 190, Answer B is then 8. How do you get 6 (check character G) from that?
One other service number I know, my best mate in training, gives Answer A to be 261, Answer B as 11. We need a 5 for him as his number had F as a check character.
Or are my arithmetic skills letting me down?
Here's mine:
Answer A was 144, then divide it by 23 = 6.26. Then multiply that integer (6) by 23 to get 138. Take that away from 'Answer A' to get 6 which = G.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 08:16
  #74 (permalink)  

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The joys of an earlier, simpler system. I joined in '64, starting at South Cerney. 423****. Left in '76, and re-enlisted in the VR(T) to fly AEF Chippies, in '84, retiring in '90. Retained the same number; none of this modern "check-letter" nonsense.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 10:32
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TTN, My grandfather left me his brother's medal set Pip, Sqeak and Wilfred plus the DCM - unfortunately they went missing while on loan to family member who died suddenly.
SLXOwft sorry to hear that but unfortunately it is a common tale. You might try contacting Medal News, which is produced by Token Publishing (Google them for contact details). I understand that they have a section where you can post details of lost or stolen medals. You will need as much information as possible as regards the naming on the medals (number, rank name and unit). Also if you want to let me know this info by private message I can post it on a couple of Facebook groups connected with medal collecting I am a member of. These may be long shots, but worth a try.

A few months ago I went in for surgery. The anaesthetist knew I was ex-service, and as I was going asked "last three". A bit of a surprise, but I told him, just before I went out. Not been asked that for well over thirty years
As regards everyone remembering their own number till they shuffle off, I once had medals and a lot of paperwork which had belonged to a Grenadier Guards officer back in the 1930s/40s. Among the papers was a letter he had written, post retirement, to his regimental HQ asking them if he could be reminded of his service number. Obviously guards officers rarely had to quote their "last three"!
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 08:37
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Originally Posted by HAS59
Here's mine:
Answer A was 144, then divide it by 23 = 6.26. Then multiply that integer (6) by 23 to get 138. Take that away from 'Answer A' to get 6 which = G.
Ahh, that explains it. It appears that the multiplication step is missing in your original post.

With that step the algorithm does indeed return the expected results.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 19:45
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Just back online. Don't ask.
Will send the promised article to supplicants in the next few days.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 23:54
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One more wrinkle to take into account. Previous postings stated "the result is then applied to the alphabet. 0 = A, 1 = B, 2 = C, 3 = D, etc until 23 = X." This is not quite true. I and O (India and Oscar) are omitted from the sequence to avoid confusion so H=7 and J = 8, then N=12 and P = 13, ending up with Z=23 (which is, of course, why 23 is the divisor).
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 13:09
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Thanks olddog. I wonder if shackman is Ray C...? Excellent student and it seems Cathay management thought he was excellent as well!

Quite a few of these names I remember with some pleasure as they came to Leeming where I was a QFI.
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Old 27th Sep 2020, 17:04
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Numbering article sent by email to those who requested and gave an email address!
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