VC 10 to fly again as a tanker
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All bar the few times it was in base, the VC10's have sat outside since the 60's, and in a maritime environment.
Absolutely correct! Airliners and cargo liners since the 1960’s have all been built to withstand “weather” because they are required to be in-use or available every day. They are all tough old birds, not like little fighter aircraft. Critical components may not have been exercised enough or documentation gaps will likely be the biggest source of delays in getting this flying. The biggest risk of corrosion is around the galleys and toilets,
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Absolutely correct! Airliners and cargo liners since the 1960’s have all been built to withstand “weather” because they are required to be in-use or available every day. They are all tough old birds, not like little fighter aircraft. Critical components may not have been exercised enough or documentation gaps will likely be the biggest source of delays in getting this flying. The biggest risk of corrosion is around the galleys and toilets,
I remember the CMk4Ks that were stored at Abingdon for years looked pretty tatty and required a fair bit of work before they were flown to Filton for conversion.
That was when there was a DA and abundance of spares.
That was when there was a DA and abundance of spares.
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Yes, they changed the PFCU’s and Engines for airworthy items amongst other things.
But they were a different kettle of fish, the RAF stuffed them in big bags to protect them as recommended by an engineering officer, however the same engineer recognised this would turn them into giant greenhouses, so he also recommended that they had dehumidifiers installing, the RAF chose to skimp on that and the result was the spars sitting in their own swimming pools for years, the bags soon deteriorated in the wind and they were never maintained as far as I could see....
Then we had the fire that destroyed a lot of the RAF VC10 spares holding meaning we started to rob them, I took a booster pump housing out of one wing to replace a porous item on one of the C1’s and all though we taped over the resulting open hole, the wing was in effect compromised.
We were amazed at how in a relatively short time they had deteriorated especially as the none bagged gulf one back at Brize was still in good condition, the consensus amongst us All at the time was they would have faired better if simply parked and left.
The surviving 10’s have been maintained on a part time basis often by ex RAF VC10 engineers and following RAF procedures, they also have been ran and the systems functioned on high speed taxy runs. They have been well looked after under the care of the teams involved, an example of how well they get looked after was the inadvertent Victor tanker short flight and controlled landing some 10 years after its retirement.
But they were a different kettle of fish, the RAF stuffed them in big bags to protect them as recommended by an engineering officer, however the same engineer recognised this would turn them into giant greenhouses, so he also recommended that they had dehumidifiers installing, the RAF chose to skimp on that and the result was the spars sitting in their own swimming pools for years, the bags soon deteriorated in the wind and they were never maintained as far as I could see....
Then we had the fire that destroyed a lot of the RAF VC10 spares holding meaning we started to rob them, I took a booster pump housing out of one wing to replace a porous item on one of the C1’s and all though we taped over the resulting open hole, the wing was in effect compromised.
We were amazed at how in a relatively short time they had deteriorated especially as the none bagged gulf one back at Brize was still in good condition, the consensus amongst us All at the time was they would have faired better if simply parked and left.
The surviving 10’s have been maintained on a part time basis often by ex RAF VC10 engineers and following RAF procedures, they also have been ran and the systems functioned on high speed taxy runs. They have been well looked after under the care of the teams involved, an example of how well they get looked after was the inadvertent Victor tanker short flight and controlled landing some 10 years after its retirement.
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The surviving 10’s have been maintained on a part time basis often by ex RAF VC10 engineers and following RAF procedures, they also have been ran and the systems functioned on high speed taxy runs. They have been well looked after under the care of the teams involved, an example of how well they get looked after was the inadvertent Victor tanker short flight and controlled landing some 10 years after its retirement.
Obviously, in no way did this make her airworthy, but it improved the base product. If she did “do a Victor” (she wouldn’t - SOPs to stop that) I think most would be confident of a safe return to earth - if she had sufficient fuel on board!
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Full page spread in Aeroplane mag, the plan is to ferry ZA150 gear down to St Athan where GD services will prep it for delivery to Texas where it will support that companies satellite programme, it says the two at Brunty are also rumoured to be involved. They bought the sims too.
So despite it being generally agreed here that these aircraft are unairworthy (how could they be otherwise?) and flying them with the gear down won't alter that, neither the CAA nor the MAA are expected to intervene? Presumably the FAA will register them and provide a permit to fly to St Athan and thence stateside. Does that supersede our own Authorities say so for flight in our airspace? What a mockery it would make of the hype re the Victor's hop skip and jump.
I remember an incident from the Cmk1 conversion which involved the stick shaker going off when coming into land after the first aircraft’s test flight. Although everything was checked out okay, it still happened on the next flight and obviously the crew were not too happy.
The cause was traced to corrosion on relay contacts within the flap drum switch, which upset the values when the AOA was set up. The corrosion occurred during the 18 months it was sat on the ground being converted.
You can prepare an aircraft for flight iaw the manuals, but things can still catch you out because the manuals assume regular operation. A short hop within the UK will be hard enough. I’m not sure I would like to be on board during a trip across the pond.
The cause was traced to corrosion on relay contacts within the flap drum switch, which upset the values when the AOA was set up. The corrosion occurred during the 18 months it was sat on the ground being converted.
You can prepare an aircraft for flight iaw the manuals, but things can still catch you out because the manuals assume regular operation. A short hop within the UK will be hard enough. I’m not sure I would like to be on board during a trip across the pond.
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A Special Flight Permit (SFP) issued by Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DAR’s) from the geographical Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) doesn't authorise an OCONUS flight UNLESS that nations airworthiness authority gives its permission for the flight to occur. So in this case the UK CAA will need to give approval for the flight to take place, this will be very interesting to follow over the coming weeks and months.
The CAA have granted that before that I can think of. The three ex-RAE Buccaneer's were allowed to make test flights in the UK, on the civil register in preparation for their ferry flights out of the UK and all the way down to South Africa, with the first one leaving in 1996, and the next one the following year in 1997. The final one didn't fly out of the UK until 2002.
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Yep, Chug, But they will get them sufficiently airworthy for a single ferry flight to the satisfaction of the authorities otherwise it won’t happen.
So despite it being generally agreed here that these aircraft are unairworthy (how could they be otherwise?) and flying them with the gear down won't alter that, neither the CAA nor the MAA are expected to intervene? Presumably the FAA will register them and provide a permit to fly to St Athan and thence stateside. Does that supersede our own Authorities say so for flight in our airspace? What a mockery it would make of the hype re the Victor's hop skip and jump.
The flights will be classified under a limited Permit To Fly and the CAA, on behalf of the local government in who’s airspace they will fly, will need to be notified and indeed give written permission for the flights to take place even if they are supported by an ‘acceptable’ foreign authority. The CAA can still say no if they wish to....but a convincing presentation, and money, may smooth the way.
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I seem to remember the last ones ferried they threw lots of money in the crews direction.. it worked. And of course that could also open up employment opportunities states side, if they’d get the sims running then they could do a refresher..
Such negativity it seems. Where is the British spirit of adventure. I once flew my B-25 across the Pacific pre-GPS days. It was only 40 years old then. Subsequently my A-26 Invader from Canada to Australia single pilot with only a ginger beer for company!
TBM, not sure what you're suggesting here, that your B-25 or A-26 were knowingly unairworthy? That is the issue here, not the age of these airframes. Much older ones fly in both UK military and civil airfleets, including WWII vintage types such as yours. Even if these VC-10s were airworthy on arrival at Bruntingthorpe, they certainly aren't now, and never will be on any commercial basis. No way would the CAA contemplate restoring them to the UK register, why then should it allow flight in/from UK airspace on a foreign register?
Not sure the Pacific Ocean would try to sue you if you’d crashed into it.