Another rant from the Bearded One
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Finningley Boy
I was Sharkey's QFI and Flt. Cdr. at Linton when we still did the basic flying training (JP 3&4) for the RN. He was a Lt. and thus the senior student and course leader. Never a problem - in fact he used to save me a lot of time and effort in the way he managed his course. A first class student who took any advice/critiscm as it was meant. A great guy in the late '60's certainly!
Bill
I was Sharkey's QFI and Flt. Cdr. at Linton when we still did the basic flying training (JP 3&4) for the RN. He was a Lt. and thus the senior student and course leader. Never a problem - in fact he used to save me a lot of time and effort in the way he managed his course. A first class student who took any advice/critiscm as it was meant. A great guy in the late '60's certainly!
Bill
Jack
This is an extract from some of Sharkey's contribution to the Select Committee Report on the Integrated Review:
Annex B: A List of Successful Combat Operations Associated with Each Group of Aircraft
Type: Tornado F1/F3 [sic]: Combat Achievement: None
Type: Tornado GR1/GR4. Combat Achievement: Iraq – Desert Storm. Eight aircraft lost with little return; Kosovo.Close Air Support of allied forces when weather permitted land-based flying; Libya, Afghanistan, Syria.Expensive and ineffective
Type: Nimrod MPA/MRA Combat Achievement: None
Type: Typhoon Combat Achievement: None (Fighter Escort for Tornados in Libya and Syria was against a non-existent air threat)
Having lit the blue touch paper, I shall now retire...
- Although the GR1/4 has been deployed in small numbers for combat operations over Iraq, Bosnia, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria, its track record has been less than remarkable – predominately achieving the destruction of pick-up trucks, mud huts and small groups of Jihadi fighters.
- In Iraq, Desert Storm, eight aircraft were lost in quick succession but a formal inquiry found that only one of these was due to enemy action. The majority of the losses resulted from unfamiliarity with the JP 233 delivery profile (Number of combat losses incorrect; BOI reports misrepresented; only one aircraft carrying JP233 lost. Apart from that...)
- Tornado GR operations over Libya were conducted from UK, Italy and Cyprus with major tanker and logistic support at an estimated deployment cost of at least Ł1.4 billion. Effectiveness of ordnance delivered was limited. Storm Shadow deliveries suffered from misfires, guidance and warhead failures and were totally ineffective.
- Similar non-cost-effective Tornado operations were conducted over Syria at an estimated cost of Ł4 billion for the first three years: roughly Ł1 million for each Jihadi reported killed
- In Afghanistan, Tornado GR4 was significantly less effective than RN Fighter Wing and RAF Harrier squadrons that preceded it.
Annex B: A List of Successful Combat Operations Associated with Each Group of Aircraft
Type: Tornado F1/F3 [sic]: Combat Achievement: None
Type: Tornado GR1/GR4. Combat Achievement: Iraq – Desert Storm. Eight aircraft lost with little return; Kosovo.Close Air Support of allied forces when weather permitted land-based flying; Libya, Afghanistan, Syria.Expensive and ineffective
Type: Nimrod MPA/MRA Combat Achievement: None
Type: Typhoon Combat Achievement: None (Fighter Escort for Tornados in Libya and Syria was against a non-existent air threat)
Having lit the blue touch paper, I shall now retire...
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Ttfn
Except that Harrier was culled by the bean counters, when they worked out the true cost of Blair and Brown signing all maintenance and support over to BAe. It wasn't helped when BAe broke a few jets by mishandling them, and then under the contract terms, charged the Gov. for the repairs.
Ttfn
Ttfn
Thread Starter
As I remarked in the previous thread concerning the committee report, I would like to think that one day an ex-Tornado pilot or nav or two might just take Mr. Sea Harrier to one side and explain a few facts of life to him.
The man is full of spite and bile.
The man is full of spite and bile.
“If Sharkey Ward had not disobeyed orders, we could not have won the Falklands War”.
This is an extract from some of Sharkey's contribution to the Select Committee Report on the Integrated Review:
Annex B: A List of Successful Combat Operations Associated with Each Group of Aircraft
Type: Typhoon Combat Achievement: None (Fighter Escort for Tornados in Libya and Syria was against a non-existent air threat)
Annex B: A List of Successful Combat Operations Associated with Each Group of Aircraft
Type: Typhoon Combat Achievement: None (Fighter Escort for Tornados in Libya and Syria was against a non-existent air threat)
A RAF Typhoon departs from Gioia del Colle, equipped with Enhanced Paveway II bombs, air to air missiles and a Litening pod in support of the UN sanctioned No Fly Zone over Libya. 16 April 2011 Picture: Sergeant Pete Mobbs RAF, Crown Copyright/MOD 2011
Just shows you that Sharkey wasn't really paying attention to ops in Libya and Syria. Typhoon was dropping bombs in Libya and Syria. For ops in Libya Typhoon was employing Enhanced Paveway II. Initially buddy designating with Tornado, but later self designating. Typhoon in Syria was using Paveway IV and Brimstone.
A RAF Typhoon departs from Gioia del Colle, equipped with Enhanced Paveway II bombs, air to air missiles and a Litening pod in support of the UN sanctioned No Fly Zone over Libya. 16 April 2011 Picture: Sergeant Pete Mobbs RAF, Crown Copyright/MOD 2011
A RAF Typhoon departs from Gioia del Colle, equipped with Enhanced Paveway II bombs, air to air missiles and a Litening pod in support of the UN sanctioned No Fly Zone over Libya. 16 April 2011 Picture: Sergeant Pete Mobbs RAF, Crown Copyright/MOD 2011
In Sharkey’s Annex B that tries to summarise the success rate of each participating RAF aircraft in recent combat zones, he forgets to mention the RAF aircraft and aircrew in GW1 that, in the words of General Sir Peter de la Billiere, “Saved the reputation of the Royal Air Force”.
We've had this discussion before but I think its true that the RAF haven't been involved in any air-to-air combat (as opposed to strike) since 1945 - they weren't in Korea (tho some of the pilots were), Suez was a bit one sided................
In Libya that would be zero. Just like Saddam Hussein in 2003 Gaddafi didn't challenge Coalition aircraft with fighters. Pretty pointless situation for the Libyan Air Force with the amount of assets enforcing the No-Fly Zone. It would have been a Turkey shoot. In Syria although their fighter force was active they never sought to directly challenge Coalition aircraft. It would have been a pointless task for the Syrians as they would only have depleted their inventory of types that they needed for bombing missions.
With Palestine, Korea and the Falklands, I believe that RAF pilots scored marginally more kills than RN pilots did. Not counting bombed MiGs taking off, Harriers, F-4s or manoeuvre kills in Indonesia.
What is the gist of the 3 differing accounts? I have only read the one in Sea Harrier over the Falklands, which I seem to recall as a report from a ship of a blip on the radar screen, Sharky instantly turning to intercept, ID, AIM-9 and cannon fire. Thank you.
I did enjoy the book immensely by the way (and other books from those that were there). Each provides a unique perspective, and personalities and perceptions do creep more into some accounts more than others.
I did enjoy the book immensely by the way (and other books from those that were there). Each provides a unique perspective, and personalities and perceptions do creep more into some accounts more than others.
Just out of interest how many Argentinian strike missions were aborted due to direct visual contact with a Sea Harrier or warnings from the Stanley Radars? (not counting successful / unsuccessful interceptions)
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In Sharkey’s Annex B that tries to summarise the success rate of each participating RAF aircraft in recent combat zones, he forgets to mention the RAF aircraft and aircrew in GW1 that, in the words of General Sir Peter de la Billiere, “Saved the reputation of the Royal Air Force”.
Last edited by Islandlad; 16th Aug 2020 at 08:40.