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How to destroy the Royal Air Force (?).

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How to destroy the Royal Air Force (?).

Old 9th Aug 2020, 14:50
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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I'm still having trouble in visualising any meaningful scenario where a cruise missile strike against the UK on its own would make any sort of sense to the Russians??

You could convince me they might take a pop at the bases in Cyprus for example but the UK itself?? - and they'd have to be damn sure they didn't hit Fylingdales..............
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 16:35
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
I'm still having trouble in visualising any meaningful scenario where a cruise missile strike against the UK on its own would make any sort of sense to the Russians??

You could convince me they might take a pop at the bases in Cyprus for example but the UK itself?? - and they'd have to be damn sure they didn't hit Fylingdales..............
I too have trouble visualising it, but the point really is whether the Russians have less trouble visualising it than you and I.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 20:25
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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A former Secretary of State for Defence of my acquaintance told me that the MoD had fixed the 2% figure by including pensions and a chunk of the intelligence budget in defence spending. Whether it’s right or not to do so, his point was that in 1997, the defence budget had been 3% of GDP without them.
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 08:43
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Patient not quite dead yet

Its not all doom and gloom. The RAF still have a base at Kenley in good old 11 group. Poised to rise again and defend the realm as it has done twice in the past. Quite capable of operating the jumping beans, and all easily dispersed in the woods around the common. The bonus is the use of the local Surrey pubs for excellent R&R and all within striking distance of the City night life. Nothing changes in 11 group. its business as usual. Stop press NAFFI building still available for tea and buns after a sortie (as seen in Reach for the sky)
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 09:00
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
Its not all doom and gloom. The RAF still have a base at Kenley in good old 11 group. Poised to rise again and defend the realm as it has done twice in the past. Quite capable of operating the jumping beans, and all easily dispersed in the woods around the common. The bonus is the use of the local Surrey pubs for excellent R&R and all within striking distance of the City night life. Nothing changes in 11 group. its business as usual. Stop press NAFFI building still available for tea and buns after a sortie (as seen in Reach for the sky)
Ah yes, but you forgot to mention reinstating the mighty Vigilants of the ATC to strike the fatal blow...
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 09:11
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Don't tell everyone its supposd to be a secret, Vikings at Kenley (still) and drones can share the new hangar Win Win.
Wait for a special on Aug 18th !!!.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 05:49
  #87 (permalink)  
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It's August 18th...


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Old 18th Aug 2020, 08:03
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
It's August 18th...

...when AC2 David Roberts won the Military Medal. Whilst under fire he downed a Dornier 17 at Kenley using the Parachute-and-Cable rocket system, its first ever successful use. He won the Military Medal for the action and ended his career as a group captain.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 09:31
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Originally Posted by Rheinstorff View Post
...when AC2 David Roberts won the Military Medal. Whilst under fire he downed a Dornier 17 at Kenley using the Parachute-and-Cable rocket system, its first ever successful use. He won the Military Medal for the action and ended his career as a group captain.
Indeed. This remarkable painting shows the rockets just after launch.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 09:35
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Kenleys hardest day

Originally Posted by Rheinstorff View Post
...when AC2 David Roberts won the Military Medal. Whilst under fire he downed a Dornier 17 at Kenley using the Parachute-and-Cable rocket system, its first ever successful use. He won the Military Medal for the action and ended his career as a group captain.
As depicted in the painting. He certainly judged it right the Dornier fell on to a cott in Golf lane but amazingly the occupants inside the cott survived, the crew did not. 111 squadron who intercepted the raid lost F LT SDP Connors (poss due to AA fire ) who was leading 111 on that day. His Hurricane came down near Biggin Hill. The Observer Corps had tracked the raid from the coast, and the Kenley station commander put the station on alert and ordered 111 off from Croydon. Being a 'very' low level raid (below 100ft) the defenders would have had little time to sight the Dorniers and David Roberts only had one chance to decide when to fire his rockets. 80 years ago today and Kenley still an RAF Station for the Cadets, with the 18th still remembered every year (plaques about individuals around the airfield this year).
One of the results of the raid was Kenley got a 'Flack Tower' south of the airfield, it is still there.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 09:47
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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How to destroy it? Politicise it.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 11:18
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Al R View Post
‪How to destroy the Royal Air Force.‬‬
Why was it formed in the place?
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 11:19
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Islandlad,

Read some history around 1917 to 1918 and educate yourself!
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 12:39
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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I think itís safe to say that had Fighter Command in 1940 been part of the RFC and the RAF didnít exist, then more fighter squadrons would have been committed to the battle in France by General Dowding or whoever was in charge, and the outcome of the BoB been slightly different.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 15:05
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How to destroy the Royal Air Force?

I saw an official slide a while ago that stated “ Less training is better and quicker”. That seems like a pretty good start!
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 17:38
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Fit for purpose

Originally Posted by Ken Scott View Post
I think itís safe to say that had Fighter Command in 1940 been part of the RFC and the RAF didnít exist, then more fighter squadrons would have been committed to the battle in France by General Dowding or whoever was in charge, and the outcome of the BoB been slightly different.
Once the Germans had gone down the route of producing the Luftwaffe it needed a complete change of direction to actually defend our country. The ADGB needed a dedicated service and radical thinking to enable new technology to be incorporated into what would be a new way of waging war. Although the emerging RAF reached across the globe to assist with protecting our interests the Air defence of GB was a major part of its business hence the need to design a complete system that was ahead of its time. With experienced former Army officers looking after the tactical side, both the aircraft industry and the 'boffins' rose to the challenge of producing the tech products that would be needed. It just so happens that the RAF got some very capable leaders that put effort in to preparing for a 'new war' as opposed to what they had experienced themselves. That was the game changer that made the difference, and it had to work straight of the box so to speak as there would not have been a second chance. The fact that the system coped with a major change in circumstances shows how lucky we were to have had the best people in charge at the time.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 19:20
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Rockets to the rescue

Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
Indeed. This remarkable painting shows the rockets just after launch.
Indeed the rockets are just getting airborne and will hit one of the damaged Dorniers in the second wave. This very expensive system has serious limitations and was used on very few occasions. Its main limitation at Kenley was the target machines would have already bombed and be on their escape route, plus it only covered one direction. Of course this was a problem for all of 11 groups airfields as they were former WW1 fields that had not been designed for defence, and had little or no underground or bunkered facilities or approach AA installations.
The hangars were the classic Belfast sheds with wooden beams and tar felt wooden roofs. It did not take much to set them ablaze and then they went up like the proverbial roman candle. The all important Ops room was basically a bungalow near the O mess and was evacuated to Caterham after this near miss event. Luckily the Luftwaffe thought Kenley was finished, but in practice its flying ground, fuel store, and ops room were serviceable and the station was never put out of action, unlike the strike force which was decimated.
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Old 18th Aug 2020, 21:40
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.kenleyrevival.org/conten...-secret-weapon

shame the other guy wasn’t recognised too.
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Old 19th Aug 2020, 05:36
  #99 (permalink)  
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Apologies to Pobjoy for these not being posted on 18th - out all day, then was getting error messages with the uploads, how I wish I still had a copy of Photoshop available!


Kenley now, seen from the SE as the Dorniers would have seeing it on their approach - albeit rather lower!


Modern Kenley with position of buildings indicated, hangars in black


Preserved flack tower structure, above the Caterham roundabout on the A22



Type of hangars Kenley had (double Belfast), these at Old Sarum - note internal wood structure


Rolls Royce Derby where all the BoB Merlins were made


Rebuilt Golf Lane cottage (PAC Dornier fell on original)

Living History in your back yard! Kenley, the Surrey common that became a modern battlefield.
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Old 19th Aug 2020, 06:40
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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PAC installation

Well done Treads
Images 1&2 show how the Dorniers would have seen Kenley although at a lower height. The PAC installation was along the straight part of the peri track above the runway intersection.
Image 2 gives an approx. idea of what original buildings were there before the raid.
The main damage was inflicted on the left hand side of the station although one hangar survived. This side is where the medical centre was situated.
The right hand side escaped quite lightly, but suffered from authorised demolition in later years.
The parade ground and NAFFI building is still complete, and well preserved for us in scenes from Reach for the sky.
The officers mess (listed) survived the war but has been badly damaged since by arson attacks.
The original BoB ops room (behind the O Mess) also survived the war only to be demolished post war together with the main barrack blocks near the station entrance.
RAF Kenley was quite small and never extended for Jet operations (unlike the nearby Biggih Hill). The surviving double Belfast shed continued to give good service for the Cadet Gliders until 1978 when it went up in flames with all of the 615 GS equipment. However Kenley and 615 VGS are great survivors and together with 450 ATC continue to serve the Cadet movement to this day. One would not expect anything else. Pobjoy
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