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How to destroy the Royal Air Force (?).

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How to destroy the Royal Air Force (?).

Old 30th Jul 2020, 13:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by usedtobeATC View Post
just for information only
I would love to see parallel spending graphs for the NHS and other nanny state spending over the same period. Not to worry, the US has your back. They’ll just pop for a few hundred billion more to keep their military forces in Europe, and somehow the US taxpayer benefits. Same team, same dream... more Africans and Middle Eastern refugees on the dole! Not to worry, the printing presses are running at full afterburner...
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 13:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Al R View Post
As was pointed out on my Facebook page - we responded by ridding ourselves of all ground based missile defence when the Cold War was won and our enemies couldn’t even fly a kite - let alone host a hypersonic first strike capability.
Not quite. We halved our GBAD capacity in 2007/8, long after the Cold War ended and just when some of those less friendly to us were starting to develop capabilities that now worry us. We still have 16 Regt RA, the half that survived and which required those that didn't (RAF Regt Rapier sqns) to bring them up to an acceptable standard. Oh, the irony.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 13:58
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by trim it out View Post
All the Apache eggs are already in the Wattisham basket
I know! The Apache eggs could move to Abingdon instead...
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 14:07
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I do find it funny that the only Airfield with a permanent SHORAD capability is 8000 miles away facing an almost non-existent threat!
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 14:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Just make one sweeping statement that "all who do not fly, get no pay rise for 5yrs".
A mass desertion which ensues would destroy the RAF.
Money saved in manpower, fuel, assets sold abroad before they rot, then unused real estate etc...
Great saving for the Treasury.
Touché
And for those still not sure "absolutely no reversion to a better Pension scheme"
Better days behind.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 15:24
  #26 (permalink)  
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Nothing changes.

The Russians pretend they’re a threat - we pretend to defend against it......
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 15:26
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Said it before and will say it again, we should never destroy airfields, put pongoes on them by all means or anyone else, but leave the airfield infrastructure complete, you can build a camp if you need to house pongoes almost anywhere, but try to find a site and build an airfield where Mr and Mrs not in my backyard will not fight it tooth and nail. and the cost compared to a fenced in accomodation plot for pongoes will be staggering.

Yeah I know, but the swedes do it.....
Flogging the Harrier off for spare parts put that more or less to bed, when they did the Jag take off PR stunt I seem to remember they struggled to find a straight enough stretch, long enough, clear of obstacles and without bridges over it to use., fast fwd to today with poor road surfaces and aircraft no longer built to operate in such conditions you would struggle.


I would be interested to know how long people think the RAF would be able to put up a defence to a credible threat to this Country from an Air Force we might face today. dependant on the build up to hostilities and the ability to disperse, Couple of days if lucky.?

No wonder the likes of China over Hong Kong and Russia laugh when we rattle our sabres at them these days.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 15:46
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, yes, but you're forgetting the vital thing. They couldn't knock out all the diversity and inclusion initiatives that have been so successfully rolled out recently. And looking at the Twitter output of senior officers that's got to be the important thing nowadays.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 16:46
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Out Of Trim View Post
I know! The Apache eggs could move to Abingdon instead...
You could be on to something there, keeps the generating force, the generated force and the Boeing depot at Boscombe all within easy reach which would be good for boys and girls that don’t want to have to move house...too much common sense, will never happen
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 17:24
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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" if we had a minor conventional skirmish with pro-Russia or Russian forces on the fringe of Europe that lead to a small but precise retaliation of conventional cruise missiles against 2 or 3 RAF bases "

Does anyone REALLY believe that this is likely? Its a fantasy........

And TBH what effect would that have? They're not invading the UK, we can retaliate by taking back their bank accounts, their houses, football clubs and all their wives, mistresses and kids in London - which would just about pay for the shiny new jets we'd order from BAe.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 18:01
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Never mind a skirmish with Russia. If there Is no fisheries agreement we might need our Navy and Airforce to defend territorial waters against the EU incursions as well as stopping migrants.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 18:18
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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The article doesn't mention WHEN. I heard it said in the 1980s that the best time for a Soviet strike would be late on the Friday evening of a bank holiday weekend, when nearly everyone would be miles away. And of course there was that hushed-up event (70s or 80s) when all the high price help were at a Strike Command dining-in, and they got food poisoning...
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 19:26
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Old-Duffer View Post
OOT Post 5: Lyneham is now a solar panel farm!
Swindon's local Pikie's would have that lot stripped out and away in a weekend!
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 19:37
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Said it before and will say it again, we should never destroy airfields, put pongoes on them by all means or anyone else, but leave the airfield infrastructure complete, you can build a camp if you need to house pongoes almost anywhere, but try to find a site and build an airfield where Mr and Mrs not in my backyard will not fight it tooth and nail. and the cost compared to a fenced in accomodation plot for pongoes will be staggering.



Flogging the Harrier off for spare parts put that more or less to bed, when they did the Jag take off PR stunt I seem to remember they struggled to find a straight enough stretch, long enough, clear of obstacles and without bridges over it to use., fast fwd to today with poor road surfaces and aircraft no longer built to operate in such conditions you would struggle.


I would be interested to know how long people think the RAF would be able to put up a defence to a credible threat to this Country from an Air Force we might face today. dependant on the build up to hostilities and the ability to disperse, Couple of days if lucky.?

No wonder the likes of China over Hong Kong and Russia laugh when we rattle our sabres at them these days.
Regarding retention of airfields, surplus or otherwise, it would seem that the logic behind maintaining Kinloss and Leuchars appears to follow your logic NutLoose. However, I don't think dispersal for any true military requirements are the reason. They were both retained in tact to provide reasonable diversion airfields for Lossiemouth and, of course, we're seeing right now the demand on both to maintain any kind of operational RAF presence north of Yorkshire. By rights, as with Abingdon, Cottesmore, Finningley etc, Kinloss and Leuchars would have been abandoned for any such operational use. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility to imagine the mandarins overruling the air staff and perhaps the other service boards by leaving us in a situation today, with nothing in Scotland while airfield works went on at Lossie.

FB
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 22:27
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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NutLoose--

No wonder the likes of China over Hong Kong and Russia laugh when we rattle our sabres at them these days.
Sadly , the days of gunboat diplomacy are long gone . The sooner people wake up and embrace this simple fact , the better . This not to say the ability of UK plc to Project Force are over . Far from it . Just means there is a need for that well worn phrase --" thinking outside the box " from those at the top making these policy decisions .

Carriers ? Trident ? F 35 ? Nice technology , nice "toys" to impress the natives/"enemy" , but not the way future wars will be fought in the 21st century and beyond . China and Russia know that . Destroy your digital infrastructure with cyber and it's all over without a single bomb being dropped . Fact .
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 02:10
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Phantom Driver View Post
NutLoose--



Sadly , the days of gunboat diplomacy are long gone . The sooner people wake up and embrace this simple fact , the better . This not to say the ability of UK plc to Project Force are over . Far from it . Just means there is a need for that well worn phrase --" thinking outside the box " from those at the top making these policy decisions .

Carriers ? Trident ? F 35 ? Nice technology , nice "toys" to impress the natives/"enemy" , but not the way future wars will be fought in the 21st century and beyond . China and Russia know that . Destroy your digital infrastructure with cyber and it's all over without a single bomb being dropped . Fact .
So what do they need their TU-160s, Flankers, Fencers, Surface Ships, Tanks etc for?

FB
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 02:22
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Don't start me off on that one, have believed from the start that energy, water, transport, communications and our digital infrastructure are just as important as our military and we should have none in foreign ownership.

I am also a strong believer in built in Britain, Phantom was about the start of the rot, buying in means UK Plc loses the ability to design and build in the UK, that then sets you on the slippery slope of being dependant on other country's for your military assets, as you lose your ability to come up with the goods, fine while friends but something that's never guaranteed.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 03:24
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by possel View Post
The article doesn't mention WHEN. I heard it said in the 1980s that the best time for a Soviet strike would be late on the Friday evening of a bank holiday weekend, when nearly everyone would be miles away. And of course there was that hushed-up event (70s or 80s) when all the high price help were at a Strike Command dining-in, and they got food poisoning...
Hit Russia the week before Christmas through the week after New Year, the vast majority will not know what is happening.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 04:56
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Both Napoleon and Hitler dreamed of it..., but Russia has something to send back.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 06:37
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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EGGS IN ONE BASKET

If - heaven forbid - we are ever forced (even as part of NATO ) to take on an enemy ( China / Russia ??) possessing the latest state of the art surveillance and hypersonic missiles even Sharkey and Dr Marc Cambell-Roddis must agree that it would be foolish to risk our F35B assets on board a highly vulnerable carrier which would not be THAT difficult to locate and sink! Particularly as it would already be tracked by satellites (or a James Bondski tracking device planted on board !?)

If such a situation were to arise our best course of action would be to fly them off ASAP and operate them from a variety of less vulnerable ,heavily disguised ,land locations - just like the Harriers used to!

All our fixed wing 'heavies' should immediately disperse away from their vulnerable main bases to anywhere which would give them a chance of surviving day one - just like the Vulcans used to! One Voyager is already cunningly disguised as a civvy airliner!

This would at least hopefully cause an aggressor to think hard before blackmailing us with the threat of a limited strike and give us the opportunity for a limited response before being forced to bring our nuclear submarine ( doomsday) deterrent into play!

PS The carriers could then have white crosses painted on deck and be used as hospital ships!
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