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617 Sqn Grave Vandalised!

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617 Sqn Grave Vandalised!

Old 17th Jul 2020, 09:57
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt
I was a 17 year old LAC once upon a time.
I do beg your pardon - Space Cadets or CCF?

Jack
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 10:28
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Union Jack
I do beg your pardon - Space Cadets or CCF?

Jack
Do feel free to demean my service.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:04
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps we should do something about Operation Black Buck.

What message does a name like that send?
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:25
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.change.org/p/r-a-f-scamp...7560-en-gb%3A4

wont make the slightest bit of difference but there is a petition to get the grave de vandalised
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:40
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 5000 metres
Personally, I am offended by the notion that a human can ‘own’ a dog.
That’s just what dogs want you to think. They are the real owners. Now cats on the other hand are quite content to let you know they are the owners and you the pet.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:46
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Union Jack
or that there are unlikely to be any 17 year old LACs, whatever their creed or colour.

Jack
How do you figure that out?
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:47
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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I consider that historical vandalism and for what! To appease the snowflake I'm offended weak? Utter stupidity, some ought to be ashamed of their righteous ridiculous actions!
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:03
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt
Do feel free to demean my service.
I assure you (and anyone else concerned by my post) that I had, and have no intention of demeaning either, or indeed any other organisation's service or rank structure. Perhaps you would care to elaborate.

Jack
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:08
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe they should replace it with a statue of the dog standing on his back legs with his right paw raised ?
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:27
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe it's time to disband 617 Sqn and confine it to history. Hopefully then the dogs name and Moehne breach codeword can be forgotten about. That way all the snowflakes can be happy again.
#TheyDiedSoSnowflakesCanWhinge
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:32
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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The dog didn't fly the raid. The dog didn't design the bomb.

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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:46
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Union Jack
Although being dark blue I don't really have a dog in this fight, I would be intrigued to have a glimpse of all the relevant paperwork leading up to the decision to alter the memorial.

On a lighter note, I'm also intrigued that no one has pointed out either the "Black Labs Matter", or that there are unlikely to be any 17 year old LACs, whatever their creed or colour.

Jack
UJ

You may not have a dog in the fight old boy, but you certainly have a few pussies! It would seem that Nigger was a common name for a ship’s cat if they were black...

http://www.purr-n-fur.org.uk/famous/...ger03-crew.jpg
http://www.purr-n-fur.org.uk/famous/...ger04-jump.jpg

If you want to find Nigger from HMS RECLAIM then the cat’s grave is in 300 ft of water in Taormina Bay. Turn to page 9 of the following link: http://www.mcdoa.org.uk/RN_Diving_Ma...Vol_4_No_2.pdf

Then of course there is always HMS NIGER, 8 of them to be exact - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Niger

So, standby for history cancelation. Indeed, I believe that various Boards of the tri-Services need to watch a bit of Jonathan Pie to understand what they are doing...




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Old 17th Jul 2020, 14:00
  #93 (permalink)  

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Many, many years ago, one of my Eng Lit O'Level set texts was a work by Joseph Conrad, and titled "The N***** on the Narcissus".

What happens to that now??
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 14:00
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Used to be able to get 'Darkie' toothpaste in Thailand, then the name was changed to Darlie.

So why not just change the name of the dog. Apart from its original short name the name
'Nigel' comes to mind.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 14:07
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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If enjoyed the Pie rant, then here is another on the subject matter at hand.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 14:15
  #96 (permalink)  
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From over the pond I would contend this is leadership.

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Old 17th Jul 2020, 14:37
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt
Imagine a black 17 year old LAC walking past the original and seeing that word.
How valued would they feel in this 21st century Royal Air Force?

Edit: I see Bing essentially makes the same point above.
So you name your son John. Now open that can of worms.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 14:46
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Snowflakes

I’m very sorry but I think many of you are conflating two subtly different issues.

The wider trend for erasing history is not something I agree with.

I believe I have made it quite clear, though, that when it comes to the dog’s name I believe the actions taken at Scampton are the correct course. This is not me swallowing a loyalty pill or being a snowflake.

I am very glad that the RAF I belong to is willing to take the unpopular (amongst some) action of doing something that is actually the morally correct thing to do.

If someone were to advocate removing a statue of Guy Gibson on the grounds that his choice of pet name made him a racist I would be right with you at the front of the outrage bus.

I think you need to separate this from the statue toppling and book burning antics and ask yourself why the name of the dog matters to you so much.

Do you really want the prevailing narrative about the legend of the Dambusters to be about GG’s dog? Or would you rather people knew and heard about the incredible and heroic missions they undertook?

Call me a snowflake if you wish (if you knew me you’d know that is not true) but I just think, on this issue, the ire of many is misplaced.

BV
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 15:45
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Being a white middle class pilot in a pretty exclusive white middle class world I have never been on the receiving end of any persecution (being forced to change the name of a dog on a gravestone is not persecution). What I have got from the recent protests around this issue is that we really haven't been very nice to a large swathe of the worlds population for a long time. For those above that complain about history being re-written, history is generally written by the victors and persecutors, history is an interpretation of facts and events, it is a fluid thing. Calling dogs 'nigger' or referring to a colour as 'nigger brown' probably was offensive to people back then, they just didn't have a voice and didn't write the subsequent history. If small gestures like saying we will remove an offensive name or take down statues which celebrate slave traders can go someway to making reparations for some pretty dark times, and can make some members of our society feel less persecuted then I am all for it. It is so easy, as with all things today to completely polarise the issue to either: Snowflake - get rid of anything or anyone with any reference or context of racism or indeed anything I don't like, to Gammon - It is British history, my granny said 'nigger' we can't change anything, screw you. The solution clearly lies somewhere in the middle with a bit of a cultural shift, hopefully.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 15:57
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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"Do you really want the prevailing narrative about the legend of the Dambusters to be about GG's dog? Or would you rather people knew and heard about the incredible and heroic missions they undertook?"


Well said Bob - it's 6 pages on here about the (now) offensive name of a dog - which didn't even go on the mission.
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