USAF F-15EX Contract Awarded
Just reading this suggests the US isn't quite so immersed in the idea of an unmanned future. Rather a more broad spectrum. But imho, the gulf between the US and the EU/UK investment in defence matters is diverging even wider.
FB
FB
Yup and the US are also reversing their decision to drive towards more and more synthetic training. Their hard hitting NCMAS report can be read here: https://www.militaryaviationsafety.g...nal_Report.pdf
The headline:
But still our clowns in the UK, under “Astra”, are still barrelling towards 80:20 or even 90:10 synthetic to live flying ratios. I thought the whole idea of Air Safety was to learn from each others’ mistakes?
The headline:
But still our clowns in the UK, under “Astra”, are still barrelling towards 80:20 or even 90:10 synthetic to live flying ratios. I thought the whole idea of Air Safety was to learn from each others’ mistakes?
Last edited by The B Word; 13th Mar 2021 at 19:54.
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Yup and the US are also reversing their decision to drive towards more and more synthetic training. Their hard hitting NCMAS report can be read here: https://www.militaryaviationsafety.g...nal_Report.pdf
The headline:
But still our clowns in the UK, under “Astra”, are still barrelling towards 80:20 or even 90:10 synthetic to live flying ratios. I thought the whole idea of Air Safety was to learn from each others’ mistakes?
The headline:
But still our clowns in the UK, under “Astra”, are still barrelling towards 80:20 or even 90:10 synthetic to live flying ratios. I thought the whole idea of Air Safety was to learn from each others’ mistakes?
I've heard certain senior officers quoted as wanting to move to all non operational flying being synthetic.
Others as wanting various percentages of synthetic - 50%, 60%, 80% and 90%.......
Sounds crackers!
Others as wanting various percentages of synthetic - 50%, 60%, 80% and 90%.......
Sounds crackers!
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I believe all the advanced F-15's produced for other air arms recently are twin seat, so think this was the most expedient add on order for the USAF.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-w...142864.article
Stilton, this article indicates the USAF intends to normally operate the EX with single crew, but the aircraft will retain the second seat. Imagine that will allow some flexibility for training and high workload flights where 2 brains helps, and future systems.
I believe all the advanced F-15's produced for other air arms recently are twin seat, so think this was the most expedient add on order for the USAF.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-w...142864.article
I believe all the advanced F-15's produced for other air arms recently are twin seat, so think this was the most expedient add on order for the USAF.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-w...142864.article
interesting, thanks
Only two nations besides the US operated single seat Eagles, Japan and Israel. After that all F-15 production, including all advanced versions which includes all exports, have been based on the F-15E and consequently all are two-seat.
Since the F-15EX is essentially the F-15SA/QA with some US systems, it would be much too expensive to develop and produce a singe seat version. Remember, the F-15EX is substantially more expensive than the F-35 to buy, the savings come in the operating costs, so you want to keep that unit cost down. And although officially the EX has been announced as replacing the C and it's been stated it will operate as a single seater, there's a whole lot you can do beyond training, given the systems, displays and software are already there, when you put someone (can you say "WSO"?) in that rear seat... I'm sure someone will eventually "discover" this.
Since the F-15EX is essentially the F-15SA/QA with some US systems, it would be much too expensive to develop and produce a singe seat version. Remember, the F-15EX is substantially more expensive than the F-35 to buy, the savings come in the operating costs, so you want to keep that unit cost down. And although officially the EX has been announced as replacing the C and it's been stated it will operate as a single seater, there's a whole lot you can do beyond training, given the systems, displays and software are already there, when you put someone (can you say "WSO"?) in that rear seat... I'm sure someone will eventually "discover" this.
*Geek mode selected*
In amongst all their toys, the Saudi's operate C models too.
*Deselected*.
In amongst all their toys, the Saudi's operate C models too.
*Deselected*.
Only two nations besides the US operated single seat Eagles, Japan and Israel. After that all F-15 production, including all advanced versions which includes all exports, have been based on the F-15E and consequently all are two-seat.
Since the F-15EX is essentially the F-15SA/QA with some US systems, it would be much too expensive to develop and produce a singe seat version. Remember, the F-15EX is substantially more expensive than the F-35 to buy, the savings come in the operating costs, so you want to keep that unit cost down. And although officially the EX has been announced as replacing the C and it's been stated it will operate as a single seater, there's a whole lot you can do beyond training, given the systems, displays and software are already there, when you put someone (can you say "WSO"?) in that rear seat... I'm sure someone will eventually "discover" this.
Since the F-15EX is essentially the F-15SA/QA with some US systems, it would be much too expensive to develop and produce a singe seat version. Remember, the F-15EX is substantially more expensive than the F-35 to buy, the savings come in the operating costs, so you want to keep that unit cost down. And although officially the EX has been announced as replacing the C and it's been stated it will operate as a single seater, there's a whole lot you can do beyond training, given the systems, displays and software are already there, when you put someone (can you say "WSO"?) in that rear seat... I'm sure someone will eventually "discover" this.
Thread Starter
The F-15EX is not "substantially more expensive than the F-35 to buy" - in fact it about the same as the F-35A at $80M flyaway (November 2020 - Boeing) and therefore cheaper than both the F-35B and F-35C.
The F-15EX is also much cheaper to operate than the F-35 at $27K per hour compared to $35K+ for the F-35.
The F-15EX is ideal for what it is being purchased for - currently recapitalization of ANG units in the homeland AD role - and obviously capable of a lot more if enough are bought to start replacing the oldest F-15Es.
"To Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., it’s not a matter of one or the other. “It’s capability and capacity,” he said during a Defense One online event in October. While Brown insisted, “We still value the F-35,” he called the F-15EX an “opportunity.” Because foreign customers have invested heavily to modernize the F-15, the Air Force can leverage those investments and acquire an airplane that’s as good as a fourth-generation airplane can be, without laying out big dollars for development or tooling, Brown asserted."
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/...differentiator.
The F-15EX is also much cheaper to operate than the F-35 at $27K per hour compared to $35K+ for the F-35.
The F-15EX is ideal for what it is being purchased for - currently recapitalization of ANG units in the homeland AD role - and obviously capable of a lot more if enough are bought to start replacing the oldest F-15Es.
"To Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., it’s not a matter of one or the other. “It’s capability and capacity,” he said during a Defense One online event in October. While Brown insisted, “We still value the F-35,” he called the F-15EX an “opportunity.” Because foreign customers have invested heavily to modernize the F-15, the Air Force can leverage those investments and acquire an airplane that’s as good as a fourth-generation airplane can be, without laying out big dollars for development or tooling, Brown asserted."
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/...differentiator.
Cost figures on which I based my statements.
USAF budget documents indicate that an F-15EX will have a "flyaway" cost of $87.7 million. An F-35A delivered in 2022 will have a "flyaway" cost of $77.9 million. But you've always got to be careful when aircraft prices are listed, because the definitions are, shall we say, "fluid". To the "flyaway" cost of a F-15EX must be added the cost of major systems such as the radar and the electronic warfare suite which aren't covered in that number, whereas the "flyaway" cost of the F-35A includes those systems. So, the difference is even greater.
Where the money is to be made is in operating costs. Using 2019 figures (latest available) obtained by Aviation Week via a Freedom Of Information Act request, the operational cost per flying hour for an F-35A was $43,123, while an F-15E cost $26,733 per hour. As you can see, the lower operating costs makes up the difference relatively early in the -EX's career even adding in the radar, EW and other systems.
The spanner in the works is Lockheed and the Joint Project Office's claim that the F-35A operating costs will drop to $25K per hour by 2025 a number that is being met with some skepticism.
USAF budget documents indicate that an F-15EX will have a "flyaway" cost of $87.7 million. An F-35A delivered in 2022 will have a "flyaway" cost of $77.9 million. But you've always got to be careful when aircraft prices are listed, because the definitions are, shall we say, "fluid". To the "flyaway" cost of a F-15EX must be added the cost of major systems such as the radar and the electronic warfare suite which aren't covered in that number, whereas the "flyaway" cost of the F-35A includes those systems. So, the difference is even greater.
Where the money is to be made is in operating costs. Using 2019 figures (latest available) obtained by Aviation Week via a Freedom Of Information Act request, the operational cost per flying hour for an F-35A was $43,123, while an F-15E cost $26,733 per hour. As you can see, the lower operating costs makes up the difference relatively early in the -EX's career even adding in the radar, EW and other systems.
The spanner in the works is Lockheed and the Joint Project Office's claim that the F-35A operating costs will drop to $25K per hour by 2025 a number that is being met with some skepticism.
Last edited by Commando Cody; 20th Mar 2021 at 19:21.
Eagle II
Welcome the Eagle II
Last edited by chopper2004; 7th Apr 2021 at 22:13.
Thread Starter
USAF CSAF: "As we continue to accelerate the change needed to accomplish #NDS objectives, the F-15EX Eagle II represents investment in capabilities that we need in 2030 and beyond.".
National Defense Strategy (NDS)
National Defense Strategy (NDS)