Fire - USS Bonhomme Richard LHD-6 - 12 Jul 20
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I am glad you did but these did not
https://mashable.com/2016/03/14/bang...guisher-death/
https://mashable.com/2016/03/14/bang...guisher-death/
https://www.propublica.org/series/na...ific-7th-fleet
I have read official reports where available (the two destroyer collisions where people died) and there is nothing that I noticed in these articles that disagrees with the reports.
https://www.propublica.org/article/m...cific-resilard
Faulty Equipment, Lapsed Training, Repeated Warnings: How a Preventable Disaster Killed Six Marines
https://features.propublica.org/navy...h-their-lives/
The Navy Installed Touch-Screen Steering Systems to Save Money. 10 Sailors Paid With Their Lives.
https://features.propublica.org/navy...-cause-mccain/
Years of Warnings, Then Death and Disaster
How the Navy failed its sailors
https://features.propublica.org/navy...crash-crystal/
Death and Valor on an American Warship Doomed by its Own Navy
Many more relevant articles linked from top link here.
Last edited by jimjim1; 18th Jul 2020 at 14:56.
Nothing effective?
https://www.propublica.org/series/na...ific-7th-fleet
I have read official reports where available (the two destroyer collisions where people died) and there is nothing that I noticed in these articles that disagrees with the reports.
https://www.propublica.org/article/m...cific-resilard
Faulty Equipment, Lapsed Training, Repeated Warnings: How a Preventable Disaster Killed Six Marines
https://features.propublica.org/navy...h-their-lives/
The Navy Installed Touch-Screen Steering Systems to Save Money. 10 Sailors Paid With Their Lives.
https://features.propublica.org/navy...-cause-mccain/
Years of Warnings, Then Death and Disaster
How the Navy failed its sailors
https://features.propublica.org/navy...crash-crystal/
Death and Valor on an American Warship Doomed by its Own Navy
Many more relevant articles linked from top link here.
https://www.propublica.org/series/na...ific-7th-fleet
I have read official reports where available (the two destroyer collisions where people died) and there is nothing that I noticed in these articles that disagrees with the reports.
https://www.propublica.org/article/m...cific-resilard
Faulty Equipment, Lapsed Training, Repeated Warnings: How a Preventable Disaster Killed Six Marines
https://features.propublica.org/navy...h-their-lives/
The Navy Installed Touch-Screen Steering Systems to Save Money. 10 Sailors Paid With Their Lives.
https://features.propublica.org/navy...-cause-mccain/
Years of Warnings, Then Death and Disaster
How the Navy failed its sailors
https://features.propublica.org/navy...crash-crystal/
Death and Valor on an American Warship Doomed by its Own Navy
Many more relevant articles linked from top link here.
One for any firefighters here. Would such an explosion be considered a BLEVE, or is that term reserved for pressurised fuel like LPG? During a GDT lecture many years ago we were shown film of a derailed railway tanker truck suffering this fate. I think the remains of the truck were found several hundred yards away!
In my experience the wiring in US naval vessels is far from ideal for the prevention of spreading fire. Up in the ceiling of the major corridors there has been, on all the US naval vessels I've been on, a complete rats nest of cable, covered in paint, held in with plastic cable ties. If that lot catches fire it would spread along all the corridors leading away from the seat of the conflagration, and also start filling up the corridors with hanging, burning cables and thick, toxic smoke.
This would make it harder for firefighters to get to the seat of the fire, never mind contain it.
I wonder if this has been a factor in this incident?
This would make it harder for firefighters to get to the seat of the fire, never mind contain it.
I wonder if this has been a factor in this incident?
In my experience the wiring in US naval vessels is far from ideal for the prevention of spreading fire. Up in the ceiling of the major corridors there has been, on all the US naval vessels I've been on, a complete rats nest of cable, covered in paint, held in with plastic cable ties. If that lot catches fire it would spread along all the corridors leading away from the seat of the conflagration, and also start filling up the corridors with hanging, burning cables and thick, toxic smoke.
This would make it harder for firefighters to get to the seat of the fire, never mind contain it.
I wonder if this has been a factor in this incident?
This would make it harder for firefighters to get to the seat of the fire, never mind contain it.
I wonder if this has been a factor in this incident?
I toured one of the earlier LHDs under construction during a visit to the Ingalls shipyard long ago, it was indeed a rats nest of wiring.
I've no idea whether there are any Navy specific fire resistance requirements now, but all the stuff looked commercial grade, judging by the labels on the spools.
If memory serves, the US had a nuclear plant under construction essentially wrecked because the wiring caught fire while a construction worker was using a candle to check for air leaks .
So cabling fires are a real risk and often hugely destructive. But I'd have thought the military would by now have switched to non flammable cabling
Most likely it was.
I toured one of the earlier LHDs under construction during a visit to the Ingalls shipyard long ago, it was indeed a rats nest of wiring.
I've no idea whether there are any Navy specific fire resistance requirements now, but all the stuff looked commercial grade, judging by the labels on the spools.
If memory serves, the US had a nuclear plant under construction essentially wrecked because the wiring caught fire while a construction worker was using a candle to check for air leaks .
So cabling fires are a real risk and often hugely destructive. But I'd have thought the military would by now have switched to non flammable cabling
I toured one of the earlier LHDs under construction during a visit to the Ingalls shipyard long ago, it was indeed a rats nest of wiring.
I've no idea whether there are any Navy specific fire resistance requirements now, but all the stuff looked commercial grade, judging by the labels on the spools.
If memory serves, the US had a nuclear plant under construction essentially wrecked because the wiring caught fire while a construction worker was using a candle to check for air leaks .
So cabling fires are a real risk and often hugely destructive. But I'd have thought the military would by now have switched to non flammable cabling
https://issuu.com/magazineproduction...ing_0812_ezine
Naval ships use a NATO coded standard and they have upgraded wiring. Bonnie Dick was built 25 years ago...
https://issuu.com/magazineproduction...ing_0812_ezine
https://issuu.com/magazineproduction...ing_0812_ezine
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Amount of time you spent in the Navy? Estimate is zero.
[... deleted ...]
Let me give you an example of how a contractor/shipyard can cock up a wet dream.
USS Saratoga, Philadelphia shipyard. (going back 30-40 years) (Full disclosure: I was on ships in the Saratoga battle group on two different deployments to the Med).
In port, Saratoga had major maintenance done, including work on her boilers. The yard utterly screwed it up. Sorry Sara was a running engineering casualty for a few years while the Navy tried to get their money/pound of flesh out of the shipyard. Millions and millions of tax dollars pissed away. And it took millions more to sort out the cock up those cnuts in Philly did ...
[... deleted ...]
Let me give you an example of how a contractor/shipyard can cock up a wet dream.
USS Saratoga, Philadelphia shipyard. (going back 30-40 years) (Full disclosure: I was on ships in the Saratoga battle group on two different deployments to the Med).
In port, Saratoga had major maintenance done, including work on her boilers. The yard utterly screwed it up. Sorry Sara was a running engineering casualty for a few years while the Navy tried to get their money/pound of flesh out of the shipyard. Millions and millions of tax dollars pissed away. And it took millions more to sort out the cock up those cnuts in Philly did ...
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Wire Fires
Originally Posted by msbbarratt
In my experience the wiring in US naval vessels is far from ideal for the prevention of spreading fire. Up in the ceiling of the major corridors there has been, on all the US naval vessels I've been on, a complete rats nest of cable, covered in paint, held in with plastic cable ties. If that lot catches fire it would spread along all the corridors leading away from the seat of the conflagration, and also start filling up the corridors with hanging, burning cables and thick, toxic smoke.
This would make it harder for firefighters to get to the seat of the fire, never mind contain it.
I wonder if this has been a factor in this incident?
This would make it harder for firefighters to get to the seat of the fire, never mind contain it.
I wonder if this has been a factor in this incident?
When the heat pattern on the flight deck revealed that the fire was following the cable runs, holes were cut in the flight deck and the cable runs were severed to stop the fire.
I have a family history with CV-60. My father was a plank owner on the Saratoga. My Uncle had the dubious distinction of being an officer on watch when Saratoga sank at her dock in Mayport, FL. They opened a sea chest and could not close it. ... during an engineering inspection ... by a 3 star Admiral. A lot of Navy careers ended that day.
Naval ships use a NATO coded standard and they have upgraded wiring. Bonnie Dick was built 25 years ago...
https://issuu.com/magazineproduction...ing_0812_ezine
https://issuu.com/magazineproduction...ing_0812_ezine
The RN Navel Engineering Standards got updated for improved wiring practises after the Falkands War, where fire spread by cabling was a significant hinderance to firefighting on HMS Sheffield. Vessels built since then have (or are supposed to have) immaculately neat cabling, laid in with metal straps, properly labelled, using LSZH insulation, etc. Heaven help you if you tamper with it. And it's always looked good whenever I've seen it.
This was all back in the 1980s. 25 years ago is 1995, some 13 years afterwards. Last time I was on a USN vessel was 2005, on a brand new ship, still with the rats nest of painted cabling. I'm wondering whether the USN's architects ever chat to their colleagues across the pond...
That link is interesting. I note that they're stimulating the idea of more fire resistant cable, as an upgrade from cable that just won't create billows of toxic smoke.
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Back when I worked (on land) we had many kilometers of data cables.
Then we had a very major fire. After that most cables which passed through
walls and similar were coated in white stuff, which was supposed to turn
into ceramic if heated enough. My understanding was it was a practise
borrowed from the British Navy.
Then we had a very major fire. After that most cables which passed through
walls and similar were coated in white stuff, which was supposed to turn
into ceramic if heated enough. My understanding was it was a practise
borrowed from the British Navy.
Well, nothing appears here:
https://fas.org/wp-content/uploads/2...s1945-1988.pdf
https://fas.org/wp-content/uploads/2...s1945-1988.pdf
Well, nothing appears here:
https://fas.org/wp-content/uploads/2...s1945-1988.pdf
https://fas.org/wp-content/uploads/2...s1945-1988.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Saratoga_(CV-60)
Below is to the one you’re referencing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Saratoga_(CV-3)
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I only know what my Uncle told me and that is not much. Fortunately Mayport was not that deep so she only rested on the bottom a few feet below the waterline. Divers were able to close the sea chest and they pumped her out. A bit of clean up and maintenance and she was good as new (only about two years old at the time) with a new Captain and several officers.
[edit] Upon reading the link from TWT it may have been the incident in 1958 since the timing is close, but my Uncle never mentioned an explosion.
[edit] Upon reading the link from TWT it may have been the incident in 1958 since the timing is close, but my Uncle never mentioned an explosion.
Last edited by saislor; 21st Jul 2020 at 23:37.