Fire - USS Bonhomme Richard LHD-6 - 12 Jul 20
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
but the long term battle for 'top dog' status - for that is already lost. It's just that many Americans do not yet realise it.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,754
Received 2,738 Likes
on
1,166 Posts
Interesting to see their latest new carriers for the F35 are similar to the illustrious class, as in a mini carrier.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-n...r-uss-tripoli/
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-n...r-uss-tripoli/
The fate of the Ship of Theseus is in this boat's future, if a hull can be said to be lucky. Considering that it certainly appears all the most costly technology was incinerated along with the island the main savings will be in the lower hull. To get that is a significant cleanup and detailed engineering evaluation, at least as complicated as the original design analysis for the structure. So they save the keel and the engines and the fuel tanks. About 10% or less of the cost of the original build. If it costs them more than that in analysis and cleanup? All it saves is the name.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,754
Received 2,738 Likes
on
1,166 Posts
One handy thing is it’s location, it was built there, who better to carry out that work.
A warship in its home port, with all possible support systems, experiences an inextinguishable fire that lasts for several days.
That is not reassuring about the survivability of the USN's capital assets in any conflict. Do they build them stuffed with paper waste and other flammables?
It is incomprehensible to me that a maintenance period appears to have been a time of slacking off.
We all know that major structures undergoing maintenance are at elevated risk, Notre Dame being the prime example. Yet this seems to have been business as usual or worse.
Overall, a deeply depressing performance.
That is not reassuring about the survivability of the USN's capital assets in any conflict. Do they build them stuffed with paper waste and other flammables?
It is incomprehensible to me that a maintenance period appears to have been a time of slacking off.
We all know that major structures undergoing maintenance are at elevated risk, Notre Dame being the prime example. Yet this seems to have been business as usual or worse.
Overall, a deeply depressing performance.
Amount of time you spent in the Navy? Estimate is zero.
This ship was in a shipyard undergoing major maintenance. It wasn't just "sitting in its homeport." You really need to read the entire thread before you spout off.
It's still a shambles, no question, what with all of the lessons learned (allegedly) over decades about how you do things properly in a ship yard during a maintenance period. Obviously, not done in this case.
Let me give you an example of how a contractor/shipyard can cock up a wet dream.
USS Saratoga, Philadelphia shipyard. (going back 30-40 years) (Full disclosure: I was on ships in the Saratoga battle group on two different deployments to the Med).
In port, Saratoga had major maintenance done, including work on her boilers. The yard utterly screwed it up. Sorry Sara was a running engineering casualty for a few years while the Navy tried to get their money/pound of flesh out of the shipyard. Millions and millions of tax dollars pissed away. And it took millions more to sort out the cock up those cnuts in Philly did ...
OK, you are ignorant and incredulous. So what?
Just because you don't believe it can happen doesn't mean it won't.
See also AF 447, PIA in Karachi recently, Max/MCAS ... need I go on? Cocking up is an element of the human condition. If that bothers you so much, I suggest emulate Warren Zevon's character
and wait for the double E...
This ship was in a shipyard undergoing major maintenance. It wasn't just "sitting in its homeport." You really need to read the entire thread before you spout off.
It's still a shambles, no question, what with all of the lessons learned (allegedly) over decades about how you do things properly in a ship yard during a maintenance period. Obviously, not done in this case.
Let me give you an example of how a contractor/shipyard can cock up a wet dream.
USS Saratoga, Philadelphia shipyard. (going back 30-40 years) (Full disclosure: I was on ships in the Saratoga battle group on two different deployments to the Med).
In port, Saratoga had major maintenance done, including work on her boilers. The yard utterly screwed it up. Sorry Sara was a running engineering casualty for a few years while the Navy tried to get their money/pound of flesh out of the shipyard. Millions and millions of tax dollars pissed away. And it took millions more to sort out the cock up those cnuts in Philly did ...
It is incomprehensible to me
Just because you don't believe it can happen doesn't mean it won't.
See also AF 447, PIA in Karachi recently, Max/MCAS ... need I go on? Cocking up is an element of the human condition. If that bothers you so much, I suggest emulate Warren Zevon's character
and wait for the double E...
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 16th Jul 2020 at 01:43.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Second; if the US sticks to the North Atlantic, who will rescue your a*se next time?
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to the findings of the Tokyo Tribunal, the death rate of Western prisoners was 27.1%, seven times that of POWs under the Germans and Italians. The death rate of Chinese was much higher. Thus, while 37,583 prisoners from the United Kingdom, Commonwealth, and Dominions, 28,500 from the Netherlands, and 14,473 from the United States were released after the surrender of Japan, the number for the Chinese was only 56. The 27,465 United States Army and United States Army Air Forces POWs in the Pacific Theater had a 40.4% death rate. The War Ministry in Tokyo issued an order at the end of the war to kill all surviving POWs.
You must have a good reason for saying what you did.
TBM legend - Read this would you.........................and then shut up.
It was Allied policy to first defeat Hitler and then concentrate all their efforts on the defeat of Japan. The RN began to prepare in earnest for the latter in mid 1943 when RN squadrons of US made aeroplanes were acquired and formed in the USA in succession until mid 1944. This resulted in; from January 1945 the RN Far Eastern Fleet, which was the largest fleet ever deployed in the entire history of the RN that statement has to be read in the context that until the USN expanded after Pearl Harbour the RN was the largest navy the world has ever known and without taking up too much space again this the situation was as follows.
The Far Eastern Fleet came to its full strength in June '45 and was divided into two parts — The East Indies Fleet under the command of the Supreme Commander South East Asia Louis Mountbatten, and the British Pacific Fleet under the command of Admirals Nimitz and Halsey of the USN. In total there were some 720 RN ships including 17 battleships, (including the Free French 'Richelieu') 35 aircraft carriers, including 6 fleet carriers, 5 light fleet carriers, and 24 escort carriers. There were 14 second line and 50 front line RN squadrons, using both US and UK manufactured aeroplanes. There were 111 shore stations and base ships including 8 air stations, 6 mobile naval air bases (MONABS) 1 transportable air repair yard, 1 air station/transit camp and 2 RN bases with air sections. There were 47 Cruisers including 2 Dutch, 1 French, 1 Italian, 1 Canadian and 7 Australian. The remainder of the 720 consisted of frigates, sloops, submarines and a great miscellany of other ships such as landing ships, supply ships, depot ships, etc…
It was Allied policy to first defeat Hitler and then concentrate all their efforts on the defeat of Japan. The RN began to prepare in earnest for the latter in mid 1943 when RN squadrons of US made aeroplanes were acquired and formed in the USA in succession until mid 1944. This resulted in; from January 1945 the RN Far Eastern Fleet, which was the largest fleet ever deployed in the entire history of the RN that statement has to be read in the context that until the USN expanded after Pearl Harbour the RN was the largest navy the world has ever known and without taking up too much space again this the situation was as follows.
The Far Eastern Fleet came to its full strength in June '45 and was divided into two parts — The East Indies Fleet under the command of the Supreme Commander South East Asia Louis Mountbatten, and the British Pacific Fleet under the command of Admirals Nimitz and Halsey of the USN. In total there were some 720 RN ships including 17 battleships, (including the Free French 'Richelieu') 35 aircraft carriers, including 6 fleet carriers, 5 light fleet carriers, and 24 escort carriers. There were 14 second line and 50 front line RN squadrons, using both US and UK manufactured aeroplanes. There were 111 shore stations and base ships including 8 air stations, 6 mobile naval air bases (MONABS) 1 transportable air repair yard, 1 air station/transit camp and 2 RN bases with air sections. There were 47 Cruisers including 2 Dutch, 1 French, 1 Italian, 1 Canadian and 7 Australian. The remainder of the 720 consisted of frigates, sloops, submarines and a great miscellany of other ships such as landing ships, supply ships, depot ships, etc…
TBM legend - Read this would you.........................and then shut up.
In total there were some 720 RN ships including 17 battleships, (including the Free French 'Richelieu') 35 aircraft carriers, including 6 fleet carriers, 5 light fleet carriers, and 24 escort carriers. There were 14 second line and 50 front line RN squadrons, using both US and UK manufactured aeroplanes. There were 111 shore stations and base ships including 8 air stations, 6 mobile naval air bases (MONABS) 1 transportable air repair yard, 1 air station/transit camp and 2 RN bases with air sections. There were 47 Cruisers including 2 Dutch, 1 French, 1 Italian, 1 Canadian and 7 Australian. The remainder of the 720 consisted of frigates, sloops, submarines and a great miscellany of other ships such as landing ships, supply ships, depot ships, etc…
In total there were some 720 RN ships including 17 battleships, (including the Free French 'Richelieu') 35 aircraft carriers, including 6 fleet carriers, 5 light fleet carriers, and 24 escort carriers. There were 14 second line and 50 front line RN squadrons, using both US and UK manufactured aeroplanes. There were 111 shore stations and base ships including 8 air stations, 6 mobile naval air bases (MONABS) 1 transportable air repair yard, 1 air station/transit camp and 2 RN bases with air sections. There were 47 Cruisers including 2 Dutch, 1 French, 1 Italian, 1 Canadian and 7 Australian. The remainder of the 720 consisted of frigates, sloops, submarines and a great miscellany of other ships such as landing ships, supply ships, depot ships, etc…
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: NH
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A warship in its home port, with all possible support systems, experiences an inextinguishable fire that lasts for several days.
That is not reassuring about the survivability of the USN's capital assets in any conflict. Do they build them stuffed with paper waste and other flammables?
It is incomprehensible to me that a maintenance period appears to have been a time of slacking off.
We all know that major structures undergoing maintenance are at elevated risk, Notre Dame being the prime example. Yet this seems to have been business as usual or worse.
Overall, a deeply depressing performance.
That is not reassuring about the survivability of the USN's capital assets in any conflict. Do they build them stuffed with paper waste and other flammables?
It is incomprehensible to me that a maintenance period appears to have been a time of slacking off.
We all know that major structures undergoing maintenance are at elevated risk, Notre Dame being the prime example. Yet this seems to have been business as usual or worse.
Overall, a deeply depressing performance.
Major thread drift but I will just say this. POWs. Shame on you; shame on their memory.
According to the findings of the Tokyo Tribunal, the death rate of Western prisoners was 27.1%, seven times that of POWs under the Germans and Italians. The death rate of Chinese was much higher. Thus, while 37,583 prisoners from the United Kingdom, Commonwealth, and Dominions, 28,500 from the Netherlands, and 14,473 from the United States were released after the surrender of Japan, the number for the Chinese was only 56. The 27,465 United States Army and United States Army Air Forces POWs in the Pacific Theater had a 40.4% death rate. The War Ministry in Tokyo issued an order at the end of the war to kill all surviving POWs.
You must have a good reason for saying what you did.
According to the findings of the Tokyo Tribunal, the death rate of Western prisoners was 27.1%, seven times that of POWs under the Germans and Italians. The death rate of Chinese was much higher. Thus, while 37,583 prisoners from the United Kingdom, Commonwealth, and Dominions, 28,500 from the Netherlands, and 14,473 from the United States were released after the surrender of Japan, the number for the Chinese was only 56. The 27,465 United States Army and United States Army Air Forces POWs in the Pacific Theater had a 40.4% death rate. The War Ministry in Tokyo issued an order at the end of the war to kill all surviving POWs.
You must have a good reason for saying what you did.
Interesting to see their latest new carriers for the F35 are similar to the illustrious class, as in a mini carrier.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-n...r-uss-tripoli/
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-n...r-uss-tripoli/
One handy thing....
If you had read the entire thread you would have learned that a ship in shipyard maintenance is different than a ship at sea. Most of the hatches couldn't be closed due to cables running between compartments, a situation which wouldn't happen at sea. Additionally, and most important, the Halon fire extinguisher system was not operational due to it also undergoing maintenance, Again a situation which wouldn't have happened at sea. So to summarize if the ship had been at sea when the fire occurred all the hatches would have been closed to isolate the fire and the halon fire extinguishing system would have been activated to put the fire out.
One thing - suspect Halon is for machinery spaces only. Where the fire allegedly started (Well deck) is usually covered by HPSW-fed AFFF, as is hangar. Highly likely that due to nature of the works and the timing in refit, the HPSW system had not yet been set to work and that the AFFF containers not in-situ. That will be a major part of the swiss cheese and a likely change in Navsea instructions idc.
TBM-Legend, I fully endorse Islandlad's condemnation of your outrageous post. If the UK 'abandoned' Australia then what is my Dad doing buried in a CWGC grave in Yokahama, alongside many other UK and Commonwealth dead? Are you saying that prioritising Germany's defeat before that of Japan was a betrayal of Australia? I suggest that reversing that primary strategic decision would have resulted in eventual Allied defeat, hardly a good outcome for Australia. The link you posted is pure anti-UK polemic. You obviously subscribe to it, I don't. That you chose to add it to a thread about a US warship fire simply points to you being a mere troll.
I apologise for adding to this unnecessary thread drift, but some posts have to be challenged. TBM-Legend's is such a post.
I apologise for adding to this unnecessary thread drift, but some posts have to be challenged. TBM-Legend's is such a post.
