Ireland Considers Purchase of AD Fighters
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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No, but it would allow them to drop the current, mainly unadvertised, agreement whereby the RAF has overflight rights and performs the Air Policing role inside Irish airspace.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland–NATO_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland–NATO_relations
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Where are you getting that information - they are more than capable of providing the service.
What makes you think they were stolen - as neutral country during the war, the arrangement with the British government was that any aircraft which force landed on the island was kept and the crew returned.
What makes you think they were stolen - as neutral country during the war, the arrangement with the British government was that any aircraft which force landed on the island was kept and the crew returned.
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Also posted in the concurrent Vampire thread but as there has been some discussion of historic Irish AC aircraft, I thought it might also be of interest here. An ex Irish AC Vampire won the Jet Class Gold at Reno in 2015; unfortunately it was badly damaged the following year in a forced landing following a canopy failure and a subsequent engine problem; apparently the wreck is still dumped at Stead Airport.
The Isle of Man pays the UK around Ł2 million per annum for defence. Out of that they get the Red Arrows at the TT and the occasional visit from bomb disposal for WW1 ordnance washed up on the north coast from Beaufort's Dyke.
If Ireland wants AD who will train the pilots?
Simple solution is to strike a similar deal to the Isle of Man. It would be in the UK's interests too since the invasion threat from Eire is nil.
If Ireland wants AD who will train the pilots?
Simple solution is to strike a similar deal to the Isle of Man. It would be in the UK's interests too since the invasion threat from Eire is nil.
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No, but it would allow them to drop the current, mainly unadvertised, agreement whereby the RAF has overflight rights and performs the Air Policing role inside Irish airspace.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland–NATO_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland–NATO_relations
And they get upset about those.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/iris...ers-off-coast/
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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If Ireland wants AD who will train the pilots?
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The queue will go right around the block -a USAF fighter pilot in Ireland - they'll think they've died and gone to heaven..............
It's old news
This is an old story. The 2015 Irish Defence white paper included:
In the last 20 years Irish defence spending has fallen dramatically in GDP terms from 0.8% to 0.27% mainly as a reflection of increased GDP as in cash terms it has nearly doubled to EUR1.08bn. Were it a Scandinavian or Central/Eastern European country of similar size I'm sure it would have had a modern(-ish) air defence capability. Clearly Ireland's geographical position isolates its from any direct state level threat and enables it to leverage RAF QRA. However, UK military involvement in Irish air space obviously carries historical/political baggage. The acquisition of an effective radar and involvement in the management of interception by friendly air arms would seem the obvious solution. To avoid the politically unacceptable NATO label, an EU based defence arrangement would have made sense if the UK was still a member. It will be interesting to see what impact, if any, the new Fianna Fáil–Fine Gael–Green Party government has on Defence spending and priorities.
I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of Irish Defence politics but the Equipment Development Plan (EDP) is part of the first iteration of a recently adopted 6-yearly SDSR type process. The process of evaluating capability gaps appears to be eminently sensible. A conditional commitment to acquiring a Primary AD Radar was made in the 2015 Defence White Paper "Should additional funding, beyond that required to maintain existing capabilities become available, the development of a radar surveillance capability is a priority for the Air Corps." Although the White Paper stated the PC-9s were due for replacement in 2025, this isn't mentioned in the 2019 Update, however, the EDP lists upgrades between 2022-24 as being in the "Major platforms in planning" category.
Personally, I find how other countries do things interesting - apologies for the lack of brevity to those who don't.
The EDP is comprehensive in its scope.
Air Combat
The existing Pilatus PC9 aircraft provide a very limited air to air and air to ground capacity and these are due for replacement in 2025. The development of a more capable air combat/intercept capability will be considered as part of the White Paper update
The existing Pilatus PC9 aircraft provide a very limited air to air and air to ground capacity and these are due for replacement in 2025. The development of a more capable air combat/intercept capability will be considered as part of the White Paper update
I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of Irish Defence politics but the Equipment Development Plan (EDP) is part of the first iteration of a recently adopted 6-yearly SDSR type process. The process of evaluating capability gaps appears to be eminently sensible. A conditional commitment to acquiring a Primary AD Radar was made in the 2015 Defence White Paper "Should additional funding, beyond that required to maintain existing capabilities become available, the development of a radar surveillance capability is a priority for the Air Corps." Although the White Paper stated the PC-9s were due for replacement in 2025, this isn't mentioned in the 2019 Update, however, the EDP lists upgrades between 2022-24 as being in the "Major platforms in planning" category.
Personally, I find how other countries do things interesting - apologies for the lack of brevity to those who don't.
The EDP is comprehensive in its scope.
The EDP is based on a rigorous prioritised examination of the range of equipment requirements to deliver on roles and associated capabilities. Prioritisation must take account of the immediacy of any operational demand as well as planning, specification, procurement, production and delivery time-frames and relevant resourcing. At any one time, there will be a balance of what is feasible within available funding and what is needed taking account of equipment life-cycles and the needs of on-going and contingent requirements.
An EDP (Equipment Development Plan) is understood to involve more than an inventory of acquisitions. It comprehends the total process associated with achieving outcomes which supply the equipment component of military capability. Thus, it is a “development” plan rather than merely a plan. This is given substance by the life-cycle process governing equipment from initial planning through to delivery into, and then sustained, in service. In all cases, the basics are identification of an existing or future capability gap; consideration of a possible appropriate equipment related response; assessment of options and determination of a recommended approach, followed by allocation of resources, procurement and acceptance into service. ... Contingent requirements also include those which are less immediately likely but which, particularly at the more extreme end of the defence spectrum, provision must be made.
Future programmes at pre planning stage
Beyond the very significant range of projects already underway or in existing planning streams, the EDP highlights others that are expected to progress in future phases of the plan. This is not an exhaustive list but gives an indication of the scale and range of programmes that will enter planning. At this stage there is not a definite commitment to pursue, or an associated time-frame, for these. These include a primary radar system, air combat interceptor, replacement of the two Coastal Patrol vessels, acquisition of diver based mine counter-measures and counter improvised explosive device equipment, field catering equipment, various vehicles such as replacement mini-buses, military trailers and an armoured ambulance as well as various surveillance and explosive ordnance disposal equipment.
A number of weapon systems are also earmarked in this category of pre-planning such as upgrade of the 105mm light artillery gun, the 60mm mortar, under-barrel Grenade Launcher M203 Replacement, RBS 70 MANPAD replacement Programme, Steyr Rifle - Mod 14 Upgrade - Under Barrel Rail and Foregrip.
Beyond the very significant range of projects already underway or in existing planning streams, the EDP highlights others that are expected to progress in future phases of the plan. This is not an exhaustive list but gives an indication of the scale and range of programmes that will enter planning. At this stage there is not a definite commitment to pursue, or an associated time-frame, for these. These include a primary radar system, air combat interceptor, replacement of the two Coastal Patrol vessels, acquisition of diver based mine counter-measures and counter improvised explosive device equipment, field catering equipment, various vehicles such as replacement mini-buses, military trailers and an armoured ambulance as well as various surveillance and explosive ordnance disposal equipment.
A number of weapon systems are also earmarked in this category of pre-planning such as upgrade of the 105mm light artillery gun, the 60mm mortar, under-barrel Grenade Launcher M203 Replacement, RBS 70 MANPAD replacement Programme, Steyr Rifle - Mod 14 Upgrade - Under Barrel Rail and Foregrip.
https://www.thejournal.ie/air-ambula...56309-Jun2018/
Last edited by air pig; 29th Jun 2020 at 15:05.
I'm sure lots of questions will be asked about our defence spending in due course, given recent events. And rightly so.
I suspect that the Irish (and EU allies) are possibly also contemplating the worst case scenario of no-deal Brexit, or the UK government refusing to implement the divorce deal obligation to enforce an EU border in the Irish sea. Quite understandable that the Irish (and EU) might not be so keen on UK continuing to look after Irish air-defence in that scenario.
This little announcement might even be a tactical sucker punch to later announce that the EU Defence Agency will form a air defence wing, and rotate various EU AIr Forces through Ireland (just as the Baltic states benefit from rotating NATO cover).
This little announcement might even be a tactical sucker punch to later announce that the EU Defence Agency will form a air defence wing, and rotate various EU AIr Forces through Ireland (just as the Baltic states benefit from rotating NATO cover).
I suspect that the Irish (and EU allies) are possibly also contemplating the worst case scenario of no-deal Brexit, or the UK government refusing to implement the divorce deal obligation to enforce an EU border in the Irish sea. Quite understandable that the Irish (and EU) might not be so keen on UK continuing to look after Irish air-defence in that scenario.
This little announcement might even be a tactical sucker punch to later announce that the EU Defence Agency will form a air defence wing, and rotate various EU AIr Forces through Ireland (just as the Baltic states benefit from rotating NATO cover).
This little announcement might even be a tactical sucker punch to later announce that the EU Defence Agency will form a air defence wing, and rotate various EU AIr Forces through Ireland (just as the Baltic states benefit from rotating NATO cover).
Gentleman Aviator
and rotate various EU AIr Forces through Ireland
We should have let him......
'Could be fun. One recalls when LFA 19 (?) was set up to legalise low flying in the Province. On day one a Belgique 104 (?) who clearly hadn't read the small print (NI based aircraft only) tried to book in.'
When I was at Aldergrove, there was a story doing the rounds (probably apocryphal) that a pair of German Tornadoes managed not only to book into LFA 19, but actually did a spot of low flying through the Province!! Now that would have made Gerry Adams and his 'chums' spill their Guinness!!
When I was at Aldergrove, there was a story doing the rounds (probably apocryphal) that a pair of German Tornadoes managed not only to book into LFA 19, but actually did a spot of low flying through the Province!! Now that would have made Gerry Adams and his 'chums' spill their Guinness!!
They won’t make any precipitate or bellicose announcements, which is why I think this Irish announcement is closely coordinated with EU. The divorce deal is an international treaty and EU will be fully authorised to enforce it by UN and even US (given heavy Irish support in Congress).
That’ll be announced later.. When you have the ERG and even Gove claiming that it will be “impossible” to enforce the EU border in the Irish sea, you can bet the EU planners will be making a plan to ensure that it is...
They won’t make any precipitate or bellicose announcements, which is why I think this Irish announcement is closely coordinated with EU. The divorce deal is an international treaty and EU will be fully authorised to enforce it by UN and even US (given heavy Irish support in Congress).
They won’t make any precipitate or bellicose announcements, which is why I think this Irish announcement is closely coordinated with EU. The divorce deal is an international treaty and EU will be fully authorised to enforce it by UN and even US (given heavy Irish support in Congress).
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Speaking of the Eire Fuga’s, there is an excellent film on Netfix about their ill fated U.N. mission in Africa, more here..
https://time.com/4408017/the-siege-o...-netflix-film/
A very good film, poor buggers really got stitched up and then snubbed at home through no fault of their own and some stirringly brave defence against overwhelming odds.
https://time.com/4408017/the-siege-o...-netflix-film/
A very good film, poor buggers really got stitched up and then snubbed at home through no fault of their own and some stirringly brave defence against overwhelming odds.