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Ireland Considers Purchase of AD Fighters

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Ireland Considers Purchase of AD Fighters

Old 28th Jun 2020, 16:28
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Originally Posted by racedo
As they were an Export market for UK Govt they why would they have "Stolen" them ?
Uk sold aircraft to them during WW2.
It was a Martinsyde Type A Mark II biplane
Michael Collins got hold of one by agreement
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 17:25
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The Irish Air Corps has a few C295 maritime surveillance aircraft coming in 2023 in addition to the other aircraft ordered. They are also looking at some more transport aircraft, maybe additional C295 or C130 aircraft. Fighter jets on the other hand is a complete waste of money with no threats to Ireland whatsoever.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 17:37
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Originally Posted by Startledgrapefruit
It was a Martinsyde Type A Mark II biplane
Michael Collins got hold of one by agreement
It wasn't stolen, it was purchased as a private aircraft in England in 1921/1922 in theory to fly Michael Collins and company back to Ireland in case the treaty talks broke down. It never fulfilled this purpose and eventually ended up in Dublin where it flew for a few years. AFAIK the Irish Air Corps still have the prop from it.

Ireland will only ever get fighters if there is a critical World War III in Europe impending scenario.

I served in the Irish Defence Forces years ago and it amounts to a fairly heavily armed Gendarmerie these days. The only real threat is insurgents and terrorists.

Irish politicians and voters don't have the will to support a fighter procurement...it's really as simple as that.

Last edited by whistling turtle; 28th Jun 2020 at 17:40. Reason: Predictive text typo
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 17:47
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Originally Posted by Startledgrapefruit
Yes
They had a couple "appear" after the war
Incidentally their firs aircraft was exRAF.
Possibly stolen
The Irish Government purchased 12 Supermarine Seafires which the Air Corps operated from Gormanston from 1947 until 1955. Incidentally these were the last true fighter aircraft the Irish Air Corps operated.
Following that they also purchased 6 Spitfire T9 trainers that soldiered on in the advanced training school at Baldonnel until 1961. Most of these are still flying today by private operators.

Last edited by whistling turtle; 29th Jun 2020 at 01:40. Reason: Predictive text typo
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 19:10
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Five of the Irish AC Spitfire Tr.IXs are flying (one is undergoing repairs at Biggin to join two of the others doing rides at Biggin), plus a Seafire III is under rebuild at Duxford.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 19:27
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
Five of the Irish AC Spitfire Tr.IXs are flying (one is undergoing repairs at Biggin to join two of the others doing rides at Biggin), plus a Seafire III is under rebuild at Duxford.
That,s interesting , took a ride in a Spitfire at Biggin about 5 yrs ago .. wonderful experience

I think , as a non politician , surely the Irish could throw a few bob towards the UK to help with the cost of protecting the skies over the Emerald Isle ? Perhaps it’s a Brexit issue ?

Surely no point wasting money on a fighter Defence system ...
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 19:29
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Originally Posted by whistling turtle
The Irish Government purchased 12 Supermarine Seafires which the Air Corps operated from Gormanston from 1947 until 1955. Incidentally these were the last true fighter aircraft the Irish Air Corps operated.
One of the IAC Seafire L.III's survived as a data plate and a large box of bits and was one of the purchases of the late Charles Church back in the late 80's with a view to rebuild to airworthy.
It was ex-RX168, flown as 157 in the IAC until WFU in 1953 where it was then in use as an instructional airframe at Baldonnel until 1961, after which it was used by College of Dubin for another year before being broken up.
It's been passed around a few owners since the early 90's and was possible in store at Booker for a while, but what state its in and where its now I'm not clued up on. I'm sure Spitfire expert Peter Arnold would know though.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 19:40
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Originally Posted by GeeRam
One of the IAC Seafire L.III's survived as a data plate and a large box of bits and was one of the purchases of the late Charles Church back in the late 80's with a view to rebuild to airworthy.
It was ex-RX168, flown as 157 in the IAC until WFU in 1953 where it was then in use as an instructional airframe at Baldonnel until 1961, after which it was used by College of Dubin for another year before being broken up.
It's been passed around a few owners since the early 90's and was possible in store at Booker for a while, but what state its in and where its now I'm not clued up on. I'm sure Spitfire expert Peter Arnold would know though.
Interesting history of IAC aircraft , Personally I find it much more interesting than the debate about new fighter aircraft .
However young IAC aircrew may think differently and good luck to them !
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 19:58
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I would have thought the IAC would want to start by understanding what's in their airspace before buying fighters ... or is this perhaps a status symbol for deployment on UN Ops?

As far as I know, they don't have a C2 system (in the conventional sense), nor any long-range AD radars (or other non-cooperative sensors) to feed one.

Happy to be enlightened ...

STH

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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:15
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RX163 is supposedly at Duxford; according to Geoff Goodall's site the remains included the wings and some fuselage parts. Initial rebuild was by Steve Atkin and Chris Warrilow with a new build fuselage (from Airframe Assemblies?) before moving on.

I went to an excellent airshow at Baldonnel in the mid-80s, most of the IAC fleet seemed to take part; I recall they had Fouga Magisters and SF-260Ws for advanced training and also a light attack role?
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:24
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Originally Posted by Startledgrapefruit
There is no threat really
Except for the Russians might invade Ireland and use it as a staging post to invade the UK like the Germans planned in the war , which is unlikely
I think most of the Irish are willing to have the UK and France defend them when required.
The exception to most Irish would be the IRA , sorry Sinn fein who hate everything thing British and would welcome everyone including the Mysterons if they thought it would further their cause.
So I just think it's one of the election time things to reassure the locals the government cares.
Ulikely to be an election issue "south of the border". The Shinners are quite partial to the Russians (being as they are a very left of left socalist party ... very much in a similar ball park to Mr. Corbyn).

WRT a threat, one could always imagine a potential enemy if required ....Well, the Chinese are demonstrating that there is still a belief in the value of naval power with the construction of bases throughout the South China Sea and building of carrier capabilities, while both the Royal Navy and US Navy are rolling out new generation carriers with 5th generation aircraft.

Russia has always, possibly rightly, felt that its ability to project a global presence has been hampered by its lack of all year round ports for its navy, with winter limiting access to bases for much of its fleet. Since the time of Peter The Great, Russia has been on quest for warm water ports. The grabbing of Crimea and the naval facilities at Sevastopol underlines that, as does the alliance with Syria for the base at Tartus. Both actions show that the leadership of the county is prepared to take significant military risks and accept significant economic and political fallout to secure year round naval capabilities. The Baltic states are certianly very worred about the intentions of their neighbour.

Almost 100 years ago, as the United Kingdom was breaking up, the government of the rump of the UK negotiated a deal with the leaders of what would become The Irish Free State (the precursor to modern day Ireland) for the retention of 3 deep water naval facilities around the island of Ireland, Berehaven (one of the deepest natural inlets in the world) and Cobh in Cork along with Lough Swilly in Donegal, collectivly known as the Treaty Ports. The UK saw the strategic value of these locations for large scale naval operations. Perhaps today others look at their potential too.

Or maybe that’s just imagining a threat.

JAS

Last edited by Just a spotter; 28th Jun 2020 at 20:37.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:36
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Perhaps the Textron Scorpion? it can fulfill multi roles..

https://scorpion.txtav.com/
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:58
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Perhaps the Textron Scorpion? it can fulfill multi roles..

https://scorpion.txtav.com/
Or this one Nutty
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alen...i_M-346_Master

Ttfn

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Old 28th Jun 2020, 21:14
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo
Er - what's the threat?
You could say the same for the U.K. where is a credible threat? Who is going to invade? Get rid of the nuclear deterrent, reduce the MOD by a certain percentage and the countries finances would be golden.

Sure we have enemies, and antagonists but is there a serious threat of invasion. Of course not. You could say the same for
a many countries.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 22:07
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Angry

Originally Posted by highflyer40
You could say the same for the U.K. where is a credible threat? Who is going to invade? Get rid of the nuclear deterrent, reduce the MOD by a certain percentage and the countries finances would be golden.

Sure we have enemies, and antagonists but is there a serious threat of invasion. Of course not. You could say the same for
a many countries.
highflyer40 sounds like an enemy within!

Our Defence system is an "Insurance Policy." Who knows who might become a threat now or in the future. I'm glad that we ensure that we protect our way of life come what may.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 22:25
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The UK has territory in every continent.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 23:06
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Perhaps the Textron Scorpion? it can fulfill multi roles..

https://scorpion.txtav.com/
But an AD fighter it ain't. Is it even supersonic?
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 00:03
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The Irish would be better off buying armed UAVs and a family of surface to air missiles for their air defense needs.
Fighter Pilots are expensive to train and maintain.
UCAV is close to becoming a reality.
Your aircraft don't need to be supersonic for air defense if all that you are doing is defending a small plot like Ireland; only the missiles need to be.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 01:18
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
But an AD fighter it ain't. Is it even supersonic?

Agreed, but i mentioned it because it is relatively cheap, contains a lot of commercial parts, has a long life, can be utilized for maritime patrol which considering they are an island would be useful, can also double as customs and border protection operations, can provide manned, persistent surveillance and tactical command and control and finally if needed, shoot at bad guys, I cannot envisage a scenario where they will come up against bad guys in fighters, but they may meet bad guys in airliners, and it should be capable of handling those.. One would have thought flexibility would be an advantage over a pure AD aircraft. Heck you can even use it as a trainer..
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 05:00
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OK, Did I miss a threat briefing on a Viking or Laplander airborne invasion?
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