Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Red White and Blue Voyager

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Red White and Blue Voyager

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 08:01
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,795
Received 270 Likes on 109 Posts
Originally Posted by Tallbloke
Is there a danger of glare when refueling if it has a glossy finish?
It wasn't a problem when jousting against a white TriStar even in the sunny skies of Gulf War One.
BEagle is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 08:49
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wherever it is this month
Posts: 1,784
Received 75 Likes on 34 Posts
I think the point being missed by the likes of Andy Netherwood complaining that the scheme would make the aircraft unusable for tasks such as daylight landings into Basra or Bastion is that this Government (and most likely its next few successors) has zero interest in getting involved in a new campaign of the type where:

1) Troop movements are needed into an airfield subject to a visually-laid threat;
2) The number and intensity of movements is such that one aircraft couldn’t be excluded from the Voyager plot;
3) The duration of the airlift was too long for exceptions to (2) to be manageable with the substantial additional mitigation of ‘night movements only’ for this one aircraft;

by which I mean that it has no interest in getting tangled up in another TELIC or HERRICK and thus can afford to take decisions such as this. As for air refuelling, well, something has gone *very* wrong if mitigations equivalent to points 2 and 3 above have not been possible, the DCA screen has failed, and an unfortunate tanker crew is forced to rely on a low vis paint scheme to keep themselves safe from enemy fighters. At that point, the infinitesimal extra mitigation it might provide is so close to worthless that you barely need to predict any benefit to justify the alternate scheme.

Justin Bronk has correctly identified the more contentious argument as being one of cost attribution, although really the paint scheme doesn’t change the substance: just brings it into sharper relief! It’s been observed that the PFI effectively protects Voyager from salami-slicing, which reduces MOD’s room for manoeuvre in the upcoming review, so if this paint scheme helps MOD develop an argument to extract a greater share of the PFI costs from other departments then maybe it will prove to have been a wise investment from that point of view alone. Who am I kidding, though... the PFI is a whacking great amount to quote towards the 2% GDP target so attributing it all to ‘Defence’ remains more likely.

Last edited by Easy Street; 22nd Jun 2020 at 09:48.
Easy Street is online now  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 13:38
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,141
Received 30 Likes on 13 Posts
Flying Hi:
I'm thinking more like Duchy of Grand Fenwick
Don't forget they defeated the USA
Fitter2 is online now  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 15:20
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: back of beyond
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by scotbill
Although we now view Concorde through the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, let us not forget the furore about the waste of the taxpayers' £750 million.
Yet that money bought the country and the airline priceless prestige and publicity all round the world.
I remember being at Twickenham's rugby sevens in the 80s when Concorde appeared on finals for LHR.
The whole stadium burst into a version of the BA anthem of the time.

That 's what an image can do for you. British ambassadors of the past reported that invitations to the royal yacht could boost British trade by billions.
Concorde - or a 15-inch gun battleship - gives you something to respect when you see the red, white and blue. But a glorified airliner with a tail-boom? Signs of the times, I suppose.
fizz57 is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 15:21
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,372
Received 360 Likes on 209 Posts
Originally Posted by Tallbloke
Is there a danger of glare when refueling if it has a glossy finish?

Thats why they wear cool shades..............
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 15:53
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,810
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
Originally Posted by difflock
also was this one of the ex TC aircraft, in an odd colour scheme
Discussed earlier in the thread.

No.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 17:53
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Former Home of the Hercules, Wilts
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I don't know what all the fuss is about the MOD core fleet is 9 aircraft including the civil registered one in Ait Tanker titles which is used on the South Atlantic schedule yet since 336 was "modified" into a VIP aircraft there are now 10 in full time RAF use. Personally I think the VIP aircraft should be in a more appropriate colour than grey as long as it is done with style and not tacky like the modern RAF branding used next to the aircraft doors.
WE992 is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 18:27
  #248 (permalink)  
c52
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,262
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BA used to paint the tops their aircraft grey and many considered it very smart. By the same token there's nothing wrong with a grey Voyager.

(At the time, KLM said they painted the top half of their aircraft blue to match the sky - I fancied that BA chose grey to match the skies over London.)
c52 is online now  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 20:43
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Threshold 06
Posts: 576
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts

Borrowed from another military site... “PM’s jet respray nears completion”
oldmansquipper is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 21:45
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
Posts: 1,185
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Lightbulb

Originally Posted by fizz57
Concorde - or a 15-inch gun battleship - gives you something to respect when you see the red, white and blue. But a glorified airliner with a tail-boom? Signs of the times, I suppose.
No tail-boom on ours... Yet!
Out Of Trim is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 21:07
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by oldmansquipper

Borrowed from another military site... “PM’s jet respray nears completion”
"Give me a T, Bob!"
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 22:47
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Location: Location!
Posts: 2,299
Received 35 Likes on 27 Posts
Originally Posted by Cat Techie
"Give me a T, Bob!"
Very funny, if not *quite* as subtle as Oldmansquipper's caption.....

Jack
Union Jack is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:52
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
And here we have it... first proper sneak peak of the BorisMobile! 🤣🤣🤣

Beatts is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 15:39
  #254 (permalink)  
c52
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,262
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Looks like a Red Arrow Hawk.
c52 is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 16:18
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Pathfinder Country
Posts: 505
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
No wonder I couldn't get any red paint at Tesco, Newmarket Road.
aw ditor is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 16:51
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Not far enough south of Cambridge
Age: 80
Posts: 208
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
No Asda Beehive sold out as well
cliver029 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 16:56
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by c52
Looks like a Red Arrow Hawk.
I'm not sure an A330 could fit inside that hangar. Can someone who has been there more recently than me confirm the hangar height?
asdf1234 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 16:56
  #258 (permalink)  
MG
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 593
Received 15 Likes on 9 Posts
Ooh, it could be as bad as we’d feared.

Last edited by MG; 24th Jun 2020 at 17:51.
MG is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 17:36
  #259 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,803
Received 135 Likes on 63 Posts
Originally Posted by MG
Ooh, it could be as bad as we feared.
Yes, sadly predictable. If I see Boris wearing a red baseball cap I may decline to cast my vote next time.
MPN11 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 18:12
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EGLL
Posts: 559
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by MG
Ooh, it could be as bad as we’d feared.
Oh dear, a bit "all hat and no cattle" as our US cousins say. Quite fitting really, some might think.
G-ARZG is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.