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Red White and Blue Voyager

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Red White and Blue Voyager

Old 19th Jun 2020, 08:08
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wannabe Flyer View Post
The 2 Aircraft VT ALW & VT ALV have been parked at Forthworth for interior & other fit outs for the past 6 months. They last flew there in the AI livery from Chicago after scheduled passenger flights. ALW took to the air about a week ago probably for a test flight for the first time. This photoshopped picture has been doing the rounds for at least a month.
You are mistaken on several counts, I'm afraid.

It's true that ALW has been at Forth Worth Alliance - though not for "6 months", but for more than a year.

However it flew more than 2 months ago, on April 14 - not "about a week ago" - to San Bernardino. KSBD is the home ot AeroPro who, amongst other activities, provide aircraft painting services to airlines and government operators (other paintshops are available ).

ALW returned to KAFW 7 weeks later, on June 2, resplendent in its new Indian Government livery, and sporting a newly-acquired SATCOM antenna (AeroPro also specialise in SATCOM upgrades).

June 2 happens to be the date of those two widely-circulated photos by a respected and prolific aviation photographer - Andy Egloff - showing the aircraft approaching KAFW on its return flight. Egloff would become a laughing stock it it was shown that he was passing off fake photos as genuine.

Finally, a Google image search fails to find any instances of those two photos prior to June 2. If you can find a copy of either photo that was posted "at least a month" ago, I'd be interested to see it.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 09:20
  #182 (permalink)  

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There was me, thinking we were a "United Kingdom". That tail is totally wrong, with the St George's Cross several times the size of the others. I know it's the dominant centre of the Union Flag, but.....
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 09:42
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Ii would imagine the grey reqs little in the way of upkeep to keep looking smart, however a shiny scheme does.
I too have design some schemes in the past that are flying
From my experience:The Belfasts had a high gloss paint finish. It was very easy to keep clean.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 09:47
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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The Britannias had a good paint finish too!
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 09:55
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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TTN, a 130 m long yacht is roughly twice as long as an A330-300, and if we assume the beam and overall height are twice as much too (a very crude estimate I know), then we are talking four times the surface area. Also the yacht has complex exterior features and as you say yourself would be labour intensive to paint. So if 1mÄ is ok for the yacht, then £900k seems a tad expensive for the aircraft.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 10:01
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tow1709 View Post
TTN, a 130 m long yacht is roughly twice as long as an A330-300, and if we assume the beam and overall height are twice as much too (a very crude estimate I know), then we are talking four times the surface area. Also the yacht has complex exterior features and as you say yourself would be labour intensive to paint. So if 1mÄ is ok for the yacht, then £900k seems a tad expensive for the aircraft.
I thought Lufthansa Tech had the contract for Voyager maintenance which presumably covers repaint? Could it be that the VIP unit was sent to Marshalls for some secret squirrel additions and that the price quoted in the press includes all work, but for obvious reasons only the paint job is publicly acknowledged?

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Old 19th Jun 2020, 10:07
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever. But I do hope that the tacky little slopey-A RAF logo in front of the registration mark doesn't appear on the final scheme.

The swoopy blue vein looks hideous - good idea, but lousy design.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 10:12
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kiwibrit View Post
From my experience:The Belfasts had a high gloss paint finish. It was very easy to keep clean.
From my experience of doing Royals on the Tens. it was a 28 day prep for Betty with a reserve also done. wash, clean and wadpol, interior change, 1/2 life components changed. her wheels fitted, her carpets fitted, bog polished to a mirror finish. anything looking shabby repainted....... etc etc etc
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 10:58
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Couple of things
The aircraft is probably due a repaint anyway, The pain that is used is very different from maritime, as it has to be able to cope with very cold and very hot temperatures, When Air Livery us ed to be at Manchester it used to
take about 10 to 15 days for a repaint including taking all the old off so doesn`t really cause a problem with colours and the Union Flag will maybe be stuck on
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 11:11
  #190 (permalink)  
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Given the aircraft will be used to convey Boris, and others who fancy a junket or two, surely to reflect this pax demographic and the state of the UK a fetching blend of ochre would be appropriate ? ……...this suggestion may not go down well with some of the aesthetic purists of course. .
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 11:56
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps they could add vinyl images across the top depicting the UKs historical relationships to the country the ambassador is visiting.
Such as the Battle of Rorke's Drift, the burning of the original White House, Penal Colony Transports, Agincourt.
Would make for better news headlines than tearing down monuments and blaming the Police for everything.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 12:04
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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KnC
Good to see you have returned. With regards to BJ new transport and the garish paintwork scheme above, I would say it show,s his personality rather than that of the UK,s. As for being different from the Grey scheme used by many other heads of state, I would observe that at least if flying into a more 3rd world country, it will make for easier identification and targeting by anyone with an AK47 to hand. Personally I am not sure flying around with a large Union flag on the tail (other than BA) is such a good idea in these times.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 12:22
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Is a Voyager a bit big for, say, short haul trips around Europe? Is there scope to use a (repurposed) Sentinel when 5 disband?
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 12:51
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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The civilized world owes a huge debt to England. Be Proud and show the flag.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 13:07
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Is a Voyager a bit big for, say, short haul trips around Europe? Is there scope to use a (repurposed) Sentinel when 5 disband?

It would be cheaper to buy new than to repurpose those. they would be a nightmare to demod.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 13:48
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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KnC,

I may not always agree with you, but I am very glad to see you are back again. We need contrary views!!
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 13:49
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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The Times (which is happy to criticise every Government decision) view

Painting the PMís plane is a sensible move, not a scandal

Jawad Iqbal
Friday June 19 2020, 12.01am, The TimesThe sheer pettiness involved in what sometimes passes for political controversy never ceases to amaze. The latest example is the synthetic outrage over the decision to spend £900,000 updating the military aircraft used by Boris Johnson to travel overseas on official business.

The grey RAF Voyager, also used by members of the royal family, is being repainted in a Union Jack design of red, white and blue. Critics have been quick to brand it a vanity project and a waste of public funds. Sir Ed Davey, the acting Liberal Democrat leader, even compared it with the cost of drugs used to treat Covid-19 patients, writing on Twitter: ďThe drug dexamethasone, that can potentially save the lives of people with coronavirus, costs £5 per patient. Boris Johnson could have bought 180,000 doses of that but instead heís painting a flag on a plane.Ē Thatís a specious piece of political logic that would mean no public money ever being spent on anything other than drugs to treat the coronavirus.

The truth is that all aircraft require routine maintenance and repainting every few years. Refurbishing an existing aircraft is much cheaper than buying a new one, and it saves money being wasted on expensive charter flights for official business. Commercial airlines routinely repaint their aircraft and change their liveries as a way of promoting the company brand. Why should it be any different for UK plc? Do we really want our leaders or senior members of the royal family travelling in a plane that looks as if itís on its last legs? Marketing Britain to the world is going to be crucial in the years ahead and there is a great deal to be said for ďwaving the flag abroadĒ.

Itís a point not lost on other world leaders who travel in branded and specially modified aircraft to promote their countries. President Macron of France, who visited Britain yesterday for crucial talks, has at his disposal several specially modified aircraft, including an Airbus. Germanyís Angela Merkel has a number of planes, all equipped with anti-missile defence technology, for official trips. President Trump has two planes under the call sign Air Force One, heavily modified Boeing 747-200Bs equipped with a secure communications centre, as well as offices and a medical suite.

Projecting a strong and confident image on the world stage is a vital part of every nationís diplomatic armoury, so what exactly is wrong with spending a tiny fraction of our overall GDP on an updated official aircraft to help sell Britishness to the world, and in a colour other than grey? The sneering should stop.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 14:27
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chiefttp View Post
The civilised world owes a huge debt to England the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Be Proud and show the flag.
Fixed that for you!

Jack
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 14:31
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Well, I really don't understand all this whingeing....

A Voyager painted appropriately in national colours will be worthy VIP aircraft, although ideally there should be 2 as turning up in a grey jet would reflect badly.

I hope that HM was asked for Her approval of the final design?
I hope so too but I don't think Boris would recognize subtle hints of regal displeasure.

My cynical mind wonders if the garish scheme is not partly a plan to stop HM and other senior royals exploiting first come first served (and causing manufactured outrage as in the May v PoW non-story). I hope she insists on Royal Air Force not United Kingdom. The design reminds me of a remaindered 2012 Team GB mountain bike helmet I bought for one of my children from Halfords. It should be repainted in a scheme that gives subtle understated reflection of UK identity.

In the current climate, the design might seem overly "colonialist" in certain commonwealth countries where politicians might not be above exploiting it. Especially inappropriate in HMQ's overseas realms which she or her representative visit in her capacity as the local head of state.

Also agree there need to be two, surely post C-19 there will be cheap civil A330s with business/1st layouts to be had for lease - true there will be additional costs for comms, defensive measures etc. avoiding the need to use another AirTanker Voyager. (I am assuming they didn't manage to get exclusive rights to VIP transport using A330s.) Not just for servicability but duplicate calls, I assumed post Brexit HMG will be making lots of marketing trips for "Global Britain" - if the original conversion saved substantially on charters surely that makes sense.

Last edited by SLXOwft; 21st Jun 2020 at 10:53.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 14:43
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst everyone is sitting moaning about 'BJ1'. What bad news is being passed out quietly ?? Or am I just a suspicious beggar ??
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