Bomber Harris a 'colonial warmonger'
Things are always clearer with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. There is considerable evidence that the strategic bombing campaign was not an efficient use of resources - but few knew or even suspected that during the war.
Revisionist history is just that - applying modern standard to historical events gives a distorted view of what happened and why. Similar revisionist history has been applied to the US dropping the A-bombs on Japan ('Japan wasn't a threat, they were about to surrender anyway, etc.'). Given that my dad was training for the invasion of Japan when the dropped the bombs - he was going to be a platoon leader on the second wave of the initial landings and had been told to expect 80% casualties - I remain unconvinced that we didn't need to drop the bombs. In fact a pretty good argument can be made that dropping the bombs and preventing the need for an invasion of the mainland saved move lives - both Japanese and Americans - than any single act in history.
Revisionist history is just that - applying modern standard to historical events gives a distorted view of what happened and why. Similar revisionist history has been applied to the US dropping the A-bombs on Japan ('Japan wasn't a threat, they were about to surrender anyway, etc.'). Given that my dad was training for the invasion of Japan when the dropped the bombs - he was going to be a platoon leader on the second wave of the initial landings and had been told to expect 80% casualties - I remain unconvinced that we didn't need to drop the bombs. In fact a pretty good argument can be made that dropping the bombs and preventing the need for an invasion of the mainland saved move lives - both Japanese and Americans - than any single act in history.
My use of Adolf and Josef was to show that picking selective areas and a bucket of whitewash can even make the vilest dictator appear "reasonable".
It still doesn’t change the fact that area bombing was the right thing to do, and it worked.
ISTR a Harris quote: “They called us criminals, but what would they have said of us had we lost?”
I do not judge him on today, I judge him on WW2, he was appropriate for the time but soon as it is over you need military people like this removed from any type of power.
They understand war BUT do not understand peace.
Gen George Patton / Douglas McArthur are others who understood war but not peace.
It is always easier with hindsight!
Bill
Bill
And the Germans would have lined up MANY miltary personnel and shot them for merely defending against an invasion had they succeeded. When we call someone a 'war criminal', it means something.
Bomber Harris, like Churchill, was a warmonger. They were both EXACTLY what was required at the time, we were at war in a fight for the very survival of our country and way of life. Thank goodness we had leaders who were prepared to prosecute that war to the fullest extent possible.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Add a plus-one Max Angle. Some people don't realise you can't half-win a total war. Of course Harris had his faults, but.."let him who is without sin cast the first stone"
and another
Idi Amin VC ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Harris was never a warmonger. A warmonger encourages and instigates. Harris retaliated.
Nope. It is still distasteful, insulting to British people and morally wrong to draw false equivalence between Bomber Harris (military commander and pilot) and the 2 worst dictators in history (both up there with Chairman Mao for murdering countless millions). That is your agenda, dressed up to look like smart historical analysis.
And the Germans would have lined up MANY miltary personnel and shot them for merely defending against an invasion had they succeeded. When we call someone a 'war criminal', it means something.
Allies happily gave free passage to War criminals when it suited their interests to do so................. Werner VonBraun and his cohorts is just one example. Allies also quite happy to recruit thousands of Ukainians to join US army and train them for 1946 Invasion of Japan, Hiroshima / Nagasaki put paid to that so many got a free pass to settle in Empire or US.
There is no morality in war.
Perhaps, but there is still a rather large difference between dropping bombs on enemy civilian targets and carefully planned, executed and ruthless genocide of millions of people.
Written inside the cover of my 'War Studies' folder at RAFC Cranwell by a previous owner:-
" The first principle of warfare: It is not the the taking part that counts, but..."
Too many detractors of Harris seem to not appreciate this subtle, but profound comment.
" The first principle of warfare: It is not the the taking part that counts, but..."
Too many detractors of Harris seem to not appreciate this subtle, but profound comment.
No morality? Is it immoral to defend one's homeland and freedom, or to do so with allies for the same purpose? It was a fight to the death; partial measures not appropriate or effective. I hate war and I hate the reasons we need to go to war, but sometimes it is necessary, perhaps for failures of previous omission. A terrible thing and we are all glad it's over. But of course, even now we live in a dangerous and violent world.
Outrage
Now we have Saudi Arabia with its ultra modern air force ( supplied by?) Bombing the cr...p out of the Yemen and not much being done to stop civilians being killed other than a few feeble newspaper articles.
Hands up those who remember the conflict in the late sixties when the british were putting down an uprising in the same part of the world?No bad publicity then!
Hands up those who remember the conflict in the late sixties when the british were putting down an uprising in the same part of the world?No bad publicity then!
Now we have Saudi Arabia with its ultra modern air force ( supplied by?) Bombing the cr...p out of the Yemen and not much being done to stop civilians being killed other than a few feeble newspaper articles.
Hands up those who remember the conflict in the late sixties when the british were putting down an uprising in the same part of the world?No bad publicity then!
Hands up those who remember the conflict in the late sixties when the british were putting down an uprising in the same part of the world?No bad publicity then!
Last edited by brakedwell; 6th Jul 2020 at 07:32.