Bruntingthorpe
So the original Hunter, and one time World Airspeed Record holder as an F Mk.3, WB188 has no significance to the RAF Museum, nor does one of only two extant F Mk1s have relevance?
VV106 the 'prototype' Swift - granted a half-way house between an Attacker and an actual Swift doesn't have significance.
I would love to know what the criteria are for Significance and Relevance.
I wonder if DEagles has views on the potential disposal of the first UK Tornado Prototype XX946?
"Our purpose is to share the story of the Royal Air Force, past, present and future – using the stories of its people and our collections in order to engage, inspire and encourage learning.The Royal Air Force has shaped our nation and our society. It has influenced how we live our lives today through its impact on world events, society and technology." From the RAFM Mission Statement.
VV106 the 'prototype' Swift - granted a half-way house between an Attacker and an actual Swift doesn't have significance.
I would love to know what the criteria are for Significance and Relevance.
I wonder if DEagles has views on the potential disposal of the first UK Tornado Prototype XX946?
"Our purpose is to share the story of the Royal Air Force, past, present and future – using the stories of its people and our collections in order to engage, inspire and encourage learning.The Royal Air Force has shaped our nation and our society. It has influenced how we live our lives today through its impact on world events, society and technology." From the RAFM Mission Statement.
Meatbox EE549 is also a former World Speed Record holder as well, when Grp.Capt Donaldson of the High Speed Flight achieved 616mph in 1946.
Hopefully both aircraft will stay at Tangmere museum.
The other one that I'm surprised to see listed, is the Fw190 A-8/U-1, which for many years was kept in running condition at St.Athan. Its the only surviving 2-seat Fw190, and one of only a few non-crash site recovered examples in existence, and the only Fw190 on the RAFM books. So, quite how someone at RAFM can quote that as being 'duplication' is beyond my understanding
Hopefully both aircraft will stay at Tangmere museum.
The other one that I'm surprised to see listed, is the Fw190 A-8/U-1, which for many years was kept in running condition at St.Athan. Its the only surviving 2-seat Fw190, and one of only a few non-crash site recovered examples in existence, and the only Fw190 on the RAFM books. So, quite how someone at RAFM can quote that as being 'duplication' is beyond my understanding
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The one that gets me on the list is the
Environment is possibly because it is parked outside.......... except it used to be parked inside but was shuffled outside to form a corporate entertaining area ( along with the Catalina ) to allow the running of corporate fund raisers.
It always struck me as a self licking lollipop, you build an entertainment area to raise funding for the preservation of the aircraft in the museum, but in doing so you put the said aircraft outside subject to the environment, which brings forward the need to carry out preservation work on the aircraft earlier due to the fact they are no longer in a stable safe internal environment. Hence the funding raised is offset against the increase costing of looking after the said aircraft.
The priority should be to the aircraft in the museum and those that they cannot look after properly should be used as exchanges for those that are more “relevant”
- SA Jetstream T.1 XX496 Relevance/Environment
Environment is possibly because it is parked outside.......... except it used to be parked inside but was shuffled outside to form a corporate entertaining area ( along with the Catalina ) to allow the running of corporate fund raisers.
It always struck me as a self licking lollipop, you build an entertainment area to raise funding for the preservation of the aircraft in the museum, but in doing so you put the said aircraft outside subject to the environment, which brings forward the need to carry out preservation work on the aircraft earlier due to the fact they are no longer in a stable safe internal environment. Hence the funding raised is offset against the increase costing of looking after the said aircraft.
The priority should be to the aircraft in the museum and those that they cannot look after properly should be used as exchanges for those that are more “relevant”
RAF Museum Disposals:
- Auster Antarctic WE600 Relevance
- Avro 707C WZ744 Significance
- Bristol Sycamore XJ918 Duplication
- DH Devon C.2 VP952 Significance/Interpretative potential
- DH Moth G-AAMX Relevance
- Fairchild Cornell II 15252 Relevance/Completeness
- Focke-Wulf Fw 190F-8/U1 WkNr.584219 Significance/Duplication
- Gloster Meteor F.4 EE549 Significance On loan to Tangmere Military Aviation Museum
- Gloster Meteor T.7(mod) WA634 Duplication
- Gloster Meteor F.8 Prone Pilot WK935 Duplication
- Hafner Rotachute III P-5 Relevance On loan to Army Flying Museum
- Hang-glider (civil) Relevance
- Hawker P.1052 VX272 Significance On loan to Fleet Air Arm Museum
- Hawker P.1127 XP831 Significance On loan to the Science Museum
- Hawker Hunter F,1 WT619 Relevance
- Hawker Hunter Mk.3 WB188 Significance On loan to Tangmere Military Aviation Museum
- Lockheed SP-2H Neptune 204 Relevance/Environment
- NA B-25J Mitchell 44-29366 Relevance
- NA P-51D Mustang 44-73415 Duplication/Completeness
- Panavia Tornado XX946 Relevance
- SA Jetstream T.1 XX496 Relevance/Environment
- Slingsby Sedbergh TX.1 VX275 Relevance
- Sopwith Tabloid replica 168 Originality/Significance
- Supermarine 517 VV106 Significance On loan to Fleet Air Arm Museum
- Vickers Vimy replica F8614 Originality/Significance
- Westalnd Dragnfly HR.1 VX595 Relevance/Significance
Not everything has to be saved.
Also, I presume the RAFM budget comes from the defence budget - if so then they should have higher priorities to spend money on!
Tin hat on!
It does, I fear, raise profound questions about what the RAFM is for, or - more precisely - the knowledge of some of those involved - see the inclusion of the Avro 707C (which for 'interpretive relevance' ought to be sitting underneath the Vulcan with explanations of delta wings and so on).
There are a couple of Meteors in the RAFM collection, but the Prone Position Meteor is unique. You might as well argue that the FD2 should go (never in RAF service) and join the World Record holders at Tangmere. The idea that the PP Meteor is a 'duplicate' is... 'daft' seems a polite way of putting it. The Hunter F3 being not too significant (and the Meteor) is also hints at a lack of understanding of what they're dealing with, although I can see a case for saying that the Hunter and the Meteor should be gifted to Tangmere where their significance will be appreciated. They've binned one Hunter F1 before - the one which sits on a building roof - so the idea that an early Hunter isn't relevant (despite being the first successful indigenous swept-wing fighter for the RAF, etc) isn't surprising in some ways.
Likewise, the Neptune - yes, it's a Dutch aircraft and the wrong version, but if repainted (see the Britannia at Cosford, which was a civilian airframe) it could serve as some recognition of Coastal Command during the Cold War - what with Cosford being the Cold War Museum and all that... The fact that the kipper fleet isn't recognised at all bar references to the RAF using the Catalina and the Neptune is a major oversight; that's not in any way to overlook the R1, but 51 wasn't known for its ASW/ASuW work... Again, the word 'environment' appears, and since I remember going to see it aged 9/10 (so some years ago...) with a school friend shortly after it had gone on display outdoors I assume that this means that there's concern, or worse yet evidence, that it's on its last (oleo) legs.
I do wonder if 'duplication' shows a worrying lack of understanding that if you've got a Spitfire I and a Spitfire 22, you don't dispose of one of them 'because we've already got a Spitfire'...
There are a couple of Meteors in the RAFM collection, but the Prone Position Meteor is unique. You might as well argue that the FD2 should go (never in RAF service) and join the World Record holders at Tangmere. The idea that the PP Meteor is a 'duplicate' is... 'daft' seems a polite way of putting it. The Hunter F3 being not too significant (and the Meteor) is also hints at a lack of understanding of what they're dealing with, although I can see a case for saying that the Hunter and the Meteor should be gifted to Tangmere where their significance will be appreciated. They've binned one Hunter F1 before - the one which sits on a building roof - so the idea that an early Hunter isn't relevant (despite being the first successful indigenous swept-wing fighter for the RAF, etc) isn't surprising in some ways.
Likewise, the Neptune - yes, it's a Dutch aircraft and the wrong version, but if repainted (see the Britannia at Cosford, which was a civilian airframe) it could serve as some recognition of Coastal Command during the Cold War - what with Cosford being the Cold War Museum and all that... The fact that the kipper fleet isn't recognised at all bar references to the RAF using the Catalina and the Neptune is a major oversight; that's not in any way to overlook the R1, but 51 wasn't known for its ASW/ASuW work... Again, the word 'environment' appears, and since I remember going to see it aged 9/10 (so some years ago...) with a school friend shortly after it had gone on display outdoors I assume that this means that there's concern, or worse yet evidence, that it's on its last (oleo) legs.
I do wonder if 'duplication' shows a worrying lack of understanding that if you've got a Spitfire I and a Spitfire 22, you don't dispose of one of them 'because we've already got a Spitfire'...
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Define relevant...
If a Slingsby Sedbergh TX1 isn’t relevant to the RAF museum, then where the heck does a Dornier DO17 dragged out of the North Sea fit in? And if the Dornier is relevant then why did they dispose of the JU52 and HE111, true the latter was a Spanish Merlin powered variant, but HE111 it was.
..
If a Slingsby Sedbergh TX1 isn’t relevant to the RAF museum, then where the heck does a Dornier DO17 dragged out of the North Sea fit in? And if the Dornier is relevant then why did they dispose of the JU52 and HE111, true the latter was a Spanish Merlin powered variant, but HE111 it was.
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 31st Dec 2020 at 14:12.
TBF XV249 was an MR long before it became an R1.
I suppose it's because you can't drop bombs or fire guns or missiles out of it.
That said, there's a very good story floating around about a flour bombing competition. Apparently the occupants of this particular T21 decided to liven things up by releasing their ordnance at the top of a loop; all was going well until they arrived back at the bottom of the loop, only to have the bomb reappear in the cockpit...
That said, there's a very good story floating around about a flour bombing competition. Apparently the occupants of this particular T21 decided to liven things up by releasing their ordnance at the top of a loop; all was going well until they arrived back at the bottom of the loop, only to have the bomb reappear in the cockpit...
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Rather like these
https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...r-tate-britain
and then
https://hastingsonlinetimes.co.uk/ar...at-the-jerwood
https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...r-tate-britain
and then
https://hastingsonlinetimes.co.uk/ar...at-the-jerwood
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As Archimedes says:
.
You could then ask what happened to the 6 (yes- Six) Shackleton MR 2s delivered there in the early 70's, including one 'polished up' for display purposes. Last seen on the large dispersal at the Western end of the airfield.
Likewise, the Neptune - yes, it's a Dutch aircraft and the wrong version, but if repainted (see the Britannia at Cosford, which was a civilian airframe) it could serve as some recognition of Coastal Command during the Cold War - what with Cosford being the Cold War Museum and all that... The fact that the kipper fleet isn't recognised at all bar references to the RAF using the Catalina and the Neptune is a major oversight; that's not in any way to overlook the R1, but 51 wasn't known for its ASW/ASuW work..
You could then ask what happened to the 6 (yes- Six) Shackleton MR 2s delivered there in the early 70's, including one 'polished up' for display purposes. Last seen on the large dispersal at the Western end of the airfield.
they were used for student training, one was sent to Manchester Air and Space Museum instead of the 'Haunted' Lincoln. If no longer at Cosford then probably in the pots and pans section of the Argos catalogue
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Woe betide anyone who removes the "haunted" Lincoln from Cosford. They might well wake up one night to find the ghost standing at the foot of their bed.
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Haunted?
I took an old friend who is sadly no longer with us to see it a few years back, he had logged quite a few hours in it as an ATC Cadet and it was on his bucket list to see it one more time, ( Cosford were great and let him wander around it once more ) they had searched high and low to find the pilot that had adopted them to find he had passed a year prior to tracking him down, the guy used to take them flying then drive them home, so that's a couple more ghosts now on board.
Picture of Saint Jim, he should never have let me take it.
I took an old friend who is sadly no longer with us to see it a few years back, he had logged quite a few hours in it as an ATC Cadet and it was on his bucket list to see it one more time, ( Cosford were great and let him wander around it once more ) they had searched high and low to find the pilot that had adopted them to find he had passed a year prior to tracking him down, the guy used to take them flying then drive them home, so that's a couple more ghosts now on board.
Picture of Saint Jim, he should never have let me take it.
