RAF Valley: Unauthorised landing and take-off
Thread Starter
Why do we have QRA anyway?
After the farce at EGOV on Monday, they may as well scrap the entire operation at Scampton, and Boulmer, do away with QRA and AEW, it's not working, and nobody seems to care, so why keep spending **** loads of money on it?
If a job's worth doing etc.
If a job's worth doing etc.
Well, they ARE scrapping the operation at Scampton...
You may need to elaborate a little more if you want any replies/reactions.
You may need to elaborate a little more if you want any replies/reactions.
I'm going to bite...
Not much you can do if someone gets airborne in their own aircraft, flies in Class G airspace, doesn't talk to anyone (because they don't need to), calls up ATC without response (because it was closed) and then decides to land at RAF Valley anyway....
If someone steals an aircraft/hijacks/enters UK airspace without permission/a flightplan on the other hand.... it is passed on to the people who need to know.
If you don't know the details etc.
Not much you can do if someone gets airborne in their own aircraft, flies in Class G airspace, doesn't talk to anyone (because they don't need to), calls up ATC without response (because it was closed) and then decides to land at RAF Valley anyway....
If someone steals an aircraft/hijacks/enters UK airspace without permission/a flightplan on the other hand.... it is passed on to the people who need to know.
If you don't know the details etc.
Warren, there is a lot to be said to make the case for retaining QRA, however, as a short answer could be filed under you don't want to find out you need it in a hurry after you've got rid of it. Not knowing about the Valley incident it sounds like anyone of a myriad incidents where a light aircraft has slipped through and landed. When I was stationed at Gatow in the Summer of 1987, we had a young German chap called Mathias Rust, he flew from Helsinki all the way through the Soviet APVO air defence screen in a light kite and landed in Red Square and lived to tell the tale.
There was another case of someone, another young German lad I recall, landed at Gatow from East Germany. Neither side came to any extreme conclusion that QRA was a waste of time, the number of Soviet Long Range Reconnaissance patrol aircraft intercepted, essentially, by the Leuchars wing through the 1960s to the 80s was the other end of the QRA story. Today it still serves to ensure that the Russian Air Force are met somewhere over the North Atlantic by Typhoons rather than gaining the opportunity to land at Prestwick.
FB
There was another case of someone, another young German lad I recall, landed at Gatow from East Germany. Neither side came to any extreme conclusion that QRA was a waste of time, the number of Soviet Long Range Reconnaissance patrol aircraft intercepted, essentially, by the Leuchars wing through the 1960s to the 80s was the other end of the QRA story. Today it still serves to ensure that the Russian Air Force are met somewhere over the North Atlantic by Typhoons rather than gaining the opportunity to land at Prestwick.
FB
Last edited by Finningley Boy; 27th May 2020 at 18:34.
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The UK does not have AEW as such. No 8 Sqn at Waddington is the UK Component of the NAEW&C Force and the Sentry is tasked by NATO as part of this NAEW&C Force: any UK Sentry tasking has to be requested through NATO. As such, there is no AEW aircraft on QRA in the UK.
I'd just assumed that news had got round exactly how bad MFTS is*, so some well intentioned soul had gone up to try and help out.......... I think even Vladimir is feeling sorry for the Valley studes - can probably expect a Bear to be parked on VAS when they pitch up to work on 1 Sep.
This is the rumour doing the jungle drums on Whatsapp....
A Pilatus PC-12 registration N412MD departed Fairoaks to fly to RAF Valley. RAF Valley was closed (bank holiday Monday) with work in progress scheduled on RWY19 barrier and families on the periphery of the airfield. At 1250L the ac called Valley Tower freq several times (reported by Valley Aviation Society) then landed on RWY19 and parked at ASP 5 (adjacent to the beach). The Fire Section noted the aircraft and responded, thinking the aircraft was in distress. Having confirmed that the aircraft was not in distress, the Pilot was verbally held at the ac steps by the Fire Crew Manager. At 1300L the MPGS attended and North Wales Police (NWP) were informed. The Pilot informed the Crew Manager that he had flown from London to go to the beach. When informed that this was a military airfield and that the coronavirus restrictions were still present in Wales the pilot stated that ‘it was ok, because he had it 2 months ago’.
The Pilot stated that he had located the airfield on Google Earth and noted from Wikipedia that Anglesey Airport served civilian traffic. The RAFP arrived at ASP5 and searched the ac for any other occupants. The pilot was the only person on board and there was nothing of a suspicious nature on the ac. The Pilot’s details were recorded. A/OC Ops Sqn informed the pilot that he did not have the authority to leave the airfield until it opened at 0800L on 26 May 20. The Pilot stated that he was leaving anyway. A/OC Ops Sqn and the Crew Manager elected to not block the aircraft and let it depart. At 1415L the aircraft departed to Fairoaks.
*allegedly
This is the rumour doing the jungle drums on Whatsapp....
A Pilatus PC-12 registration N412MD departed Fairoaks to fly to RAF Valley. RAF Valley was closed (bank holiday Monday) with work in progress scheduled on RWY19 barrier and families on the periphery of the airfield. At 1250L the ac called Valley Tower freq several times (reported by Valley Aviation Society) then landed on RWY19 and parked at ASP 5 (adjacent to the beach). The Fire Section noted the aircraft and responded, thinking the aircraft was in distress. Having confirmed that the aircraft was not in distress, the Pilot was verbally held at the ac steps by the Fire Crew Manager. At 1300L the MPGS attended and North Wales Police (NWP) were informed. The Pilot informed the Crew Manager that he had flown from London to go to the beach. When informed that this was a military airfield and that the coronavirus restrictions were still present in Wales the pilot stated that ‘it was ok, because he had it 2 months ago’.
The Pilot stated that he had located the airfield on Google Earth and noted from Wikipedia that Anglesey Airport served civilian traffic. The RAFP arrived at ASP5 and searched the ac for any other occupants. The pilot was the only person on board and there was nothing of a suspicious nature on the ac. The Pilot’s details were recorded. A/OC Ops Sqn informed the pilot that he did not have the authority to leave the airfield until it opened at 0800L on 26 May 20. The Pilot stated that he was leaving anyway. A/OC Ops Sqn and the Crew Manager elected to not block the aircraft and let it depart. At 1415L the aircraft departed to Fairoaks.
*allegedly
You sure it wasn’t Dom visiting another relative or two 🤭
I'd just assumed that news had got round exactly how bad MFTS is*, so some well intentioned soul had gone up to try and help out.......... I think even Vladimir is feeling sorry for the Valley studes - can probably expect a Bear to be parked on VAS when they pitch up to work on 1 Sep.
This is the rumour doing the jungle drums on Whatsapp....
A Pilatus PC-12 registration N412MD departed Fairoaks to fly to RAF Valley. RAF Valley was closed (bank holiday Monday) with work in progress scheduled on RWY19 barrier and families on the periphery of the airfield. At 1250L the ac called Valley Tower freq several times (reported by Valley Aviation Society) then landed on RWY19 and parked at ASP 5 (adjacent to the beach). The Fire Section noted the aircraft and responded, thinking the aircraft was in distress. Having confirmed that the aircraft was not in distress, the Pilot was verbally held at the ac steps by the Fire Crew Manager. At 1300L the MPGS attended and North Wales Police (NWP) were informed. The Pilot informed the Crew Manager that he had flown from London to go to the beach. When informed that this was a military airfield and that the coronavirus restrictions were still present in Wales the pilot stated that ‘it was ok, because he had it 2 months ago’.
The Pilot stated that he had located the airfield on Google Earth and noted from Wikipedia that Anglesey Airport served civilian traffic. The RAFP arrived at ASP5 and searched the ac for any other occupants. The pilot was the only person on board and there was nothing of a suspicious nature on the ac. The Pilot’s details were recorded. A/OC Ops Sqn informed the pilot that he did not have the authority to leave the airfield until it opened at 0800L on 26 May 20. The Pilot stated that he was leaving anyway. A/OC Ops Sqn and the Crew Manager elected to not block the aircraft and let it depart. At 1415L the aircraft departed to Fairoaks.
*allegedly
This is the rumour doing the jungle drums on Whatsapp....
A Pilatus PC-12 registration N412MD departed Fairoaks to fly to RAF Valley. RAF Valley was closed (bank holiday Monday) with work in progress scheduled on RWY19 barrier and families on the periphery of the airfield. At 1250L the ac called Valley Tower freq several times (reported by Valley Aviation Society) then landed on RWY19 and parked at ASP 5 (adjacent to the beach). The Fire Section noted the aircraft and responded, thinking the aircraft was in distress. Having confirmed that the aircraft was not in distress, the Pilot was verbally held at the ac steps by the Fire Crew Manager. At 1300L the MPGS attended and North Wales Police (NWP) were informed. The Pilot informed the Crew Manager that he had flown from London to go to the beach. When informed that this was a military airfield and that the coronavirus restrictions were still present in Wales the pilot stated that ‘it was ok, because he had it 2 months ago’.
The Pilot stated that he had located the airfield on Google Earth and noted from Wikipedia that Anglesey Airport served civilian traffic. The RAFP arrived at ASP5 and searched the ac for any other occupants. The pilot was the only person on board and there was nothing of a suspicious nature on the ac. The Pilot’s details were recorded. A/OC Ops Sqn informed the pilot that he did not have the authority to leave the airfield until it opened at 0800L on 26 May 20. The Pilot stated that he was leaving anyway. A/OC Ops Sqn and the Crew Manager elected to not block the aircraft and let it depart. At 1415L the aircraft departed to Fairoaks.
*allegedly
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I wonder if Oc Ops managed to rustle up a pack lunch from the mess for his return journey... Talk about lax security..
A PC-12 is a reasonably pricey piece of kit for someone to be flying solo.
Wonder who the pilot was - may be someone wealthy and well known?
Arrogance and lack of preparation or just not giving a sh1t...
Wonder who the pilot was - may be someone wealthy and well known?
Arrogance and lack of preparation or just not giving a sh1t...
On a slight different tack I wonder why we QRA each time the Russians come south.
what would be wrong with sometimes we scramble to meet them as far north as possible. Other times we launch as they get near the UK. And often we sit on our bum and ignore them.
doesn't say anything different about our capability or intentions.
in NATO in the 80s it was called flexible response
what would be wrong with sometimes we scramble to meet them as far north as possible. Other times we launch as they get near the UK. And often we sit on our bum and ignore them.
doesn't say anything different about our capability or intentions.
in NATO in the 80s it was called flexible response
typerated,
Are you seriously proposing that the UK totally ignores an unidentified radar trace approaching the UK air defence region, abandon any pretence at a recognised air picture in the area ,and just let anyone roam about? For a start I would expect that would be a NATO obligation not met, and then there would be the Daily Mail headlines, and then the Pprune outrage...
Are you seriously proposing that the UK totally ignores an unidentified radar trace approaching the UK air defence region, abandon any pretence at a recognised air picture in the area ,and just let anyone roam about? For a start I would expect that would be a NATO obligation not met, and then there would be the Daily Mail headlines, and then the Pprune outrage...
All of the above, but mostly the former and the latter I suspect.
Looking at his flight track on FR24 back to Fairoaks, he took an interesting route back once departed Valley.....including an interesting 180 deg turn over Caernarfon town.......and then another 180 over the sea to track back over North Wales.
Looking at his flight track on FR24 back to Fairoaks, he took an interesting route back once departed Valley.....including an interesting 180 deg turn over Caernarfon town.......and then another 180 over the sea to track back over North Wales.
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Ah! memories of the old Ex REDCAN when the Shackleton used to simulate an aircraft defecting from behind the Iron Curtain and landing unannounced at some poor unsuspecting airfield. One wonders if it needs to be resurrected? (The exercise - not the Shackleton).
Last edited by Wensleydale; 28th May 2020 at 10:18.
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Makes me think A/OC Ops has demonstrated their unsuitability for advancement. N412MD and its pilot should have experienced every inconvenience possible, including the pilot being escorted off the airfield and the aircraft being boxed in by 4 bowsers until the it was convenient for the RAF to receive landing fees, sometime late Wednesday afternoon probably.
I remember Gary Numan being held in the guardroom at Odiham having been arrested by the RAF plods after setting off on his round the world flight and landing at Odi instead of Lasham on his first stop for fuel... not a good start and I believe he never finished the trip.
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All of the above, but mostly the former and the latter I suspect.
Looking at his flight track on FR24 back to Fairoaks, he took an interesting route back once departed Valley.....including an interesting 180 deg turn over Caernarfon town.......and then another 180 over the sea to track back over North Wales.
Looking at his flight track on FR24 back to Fairoaks, he took an interesting route back once departed Valley.....including an interesting 180 deg turn over Caernarfon town.......and then another 180 over the sea to track back over North Wales.
