Canadian Forces Snowbirds CT-114 down in British Columbia
Another thing that is I guess at a glance unique is that the Tutor is not in current active service in the RCAF, unlike flying something like the T-6 or the Hawk (or PC-21/9 in the RAAF) which pilots would have been trained to fly on pilots course, FIC, while at the schools etc. The only Tutor time the crew have is time the pilots presumably have as part of the team; not through any other posting or tour.
I'm surprised that a straight ahead climb followed by an ejection wasn't selected. A turn back from that altitude looks impossible to me. Surely such a calculation is routine for every single engine jet takeoff in a military aircraft?
WWW
WWW
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vienna
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would they pull up like that after what seems a normal TO?
- They planned (or ad hoc decided to do) an aerobatic maneuver which ended badly
- Somatogravic illusion
- Technical problems (control surface, engine,...)
- Health issue (anything from a bee i the cockpit to something else)
- Cockpit management (e.g. PNF took control, made a mistake in the process)
- Trading speed for height in order to eject
- CoG issue (doesn't seem like it)
- ?
It's impossible to say which is true. But they did indeed climb, stall(?), bank so that the cockpit was pointing towards the sky and eject. Could as well be a planned ejection, with an unfortunate outcome.
Last edited by derjodel; 18th May 2020 at 18:18.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cold Lake
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Probably turning away from the city/river/mountains. Take a look at google earth, its been ages since i flew in there but theres not many places to go to. i dont think he was trying to make the airfield.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a look at Google Maps of the area around CYKA. An engine failure on takeoff leaves you with the choices of a Domtar pulp & paper mill on the south side of the river, or residential neighbourhoods on the north (and the river straight ahead). None of those options seem particularly good. Perhaps the pilot was at least trying to turn towards the northwest where there's a bit of open space near the airport as well as the golf course.
So to be clear, the Snowbirds don't fly practice EFATO PFLs? If not surely they must brief to only leave above a certain height and speed, not start turning.
All very odd; jet enters what looks like an uncoordinated turn, spins to the right through a full rotation, and seems to briefly (self?) stabilise as the crew leave. No smoke, flame or debris from the jetpipe before the pull-up, no change in engine note that I can hear.
All very odd; jet enters what looks like an uncoordinated turn, spins to the right through a full rotation, and seems to briefly (self?) stabilise as the crew leave. No smoke, flame or debris from the jetpipe before the pull-up, no change in engine note that I can hear.
I guess the investigation will establish whether he could have made the turn if he kept lower/faster, or at least got the a/c pointing back at the airfield or some open space and given him and his PAX a better chance of a survivable ejection. So very sad.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NV USA
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
From PM Trudeau:
In this case the pilot came from the C-130 community:
https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/ne...lle-nb-448287/
After getting his degree in 2009, he entered flight training in Moose Jaw, Sask. in 2010 and got his wings in Portage La Prairie, Man. in 2011 and began flying the C-130 Hercules in operations around the world from 2011 to 2017, including an air-to-air refuelling role with CF-18s.“They had to send one guy to Moose Jaw (the home base of the Snowbirds) and my name came up to teach at the school. I taught on the Harvard-2 aircraft for two years,” he said. “It is very much a lead into doing the Snowbirds. By being on base I was asked to try out and went through the process.”
MacDougall joined the Snowbirds last August and said it’s a tremendous honour.
MacDougall joined the Snowbirds last August and said it’s a tremendous honour.
Last edited by Airbubba; 18th May 2020 at 18:26.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Murica.
Age: 45
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just listened to a podcast interview with a former Snowbirds CO, and one of the things he mentioned is the lack of luggage space in the Tutor.
Looking at the picture of Capt. Casey in the Tutor there seems to be a duffel bag stuffed on top of her seat. I have seen pics of F-16s with a bag behind the seat, and an F-15E with a big duffel on top of the WSO instrument panel. Could this bag, if present during the flight, have interfered with the proper seat functioning?
Ken
Looking at the picture of Capt. Casey in the Tutor there seems to be a duffel bag stuffed on top of her seat. I have seen pics of F-16s with a bag behind the seat, and an F-15E with a big duffel on top of the WSO instrument panel. Could this bag, if present during the flight, have interfered with the proper seat functioning?
Ken
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 54
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
I just listened to a podcast interview with a former Snowbirds CO, and one of the things he mentioned is the lack of luggage space in the Tutor.
Looking at the picture of Capt. Casey in the Tutor there seems to be a duffel bag stuffed on top of her seat. I have seen pics of F-16s with a bag behind the seat, and an F-15E with a big duffel on top of the WSO instrument panel. Could this bag, if present during the flight, have interfered with the proper seat functioning?
Ken
Looking at the picture of Capt. Casey in the Tutor there seems to be a duffel bag stuffed on top of her seat. I have seen pics of F-16s with a bag behind the seat, and an F-15E with a big duffel on top of the WSO instrument panel. Could this bag, if present during the flight, have interfered with the proper seat functioning?
Ken
I do see a headset beneath the bag though so perhaps this is 'remove before flight' stowage?
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vienna
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just listened to a podcast interview with a former Snowbirds CO, and one of the things he mentioned is the lack of luggage space in the Tutor.
Looking at the picture of Capt. Casey in the Tutor there seems to be a duffel bag stuffed on top of her seat. I have seen pics of F-16s with a bag behind the seat, and an F-15E with a big duffel on top of the WSO instrument panel. Could this bag, if present during the flight, have interfered with the proper seat functioning?
Ken
Looking at the picture of Capt. Casey in the Tutor there seems to be a duffel bag stuffed on top of her seat. I have seen pics of F-16s with a bag behind the seat, and an F-15E with a big duffel on top of the WSO instrument panel. Could this bag, if present during the flight, have interfered with the proper seat functioning?
Ken
Look at the side view, there's an arm with a drogue parachute, which at some point extends right where the bag is. If my life depended on it I would certainly not want an object on top of this design!
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 54
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vienna
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think they definitely fly with the bags there! Look at this site: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4...kes?artslide=5
Look at the first picture: bags on the wings.
Second picture, I'm fairly sure it's the same bag on the seat.
That space is empty when they do shows (picture 3)
Look at the first picture: bags on the wings.
Second picture, I'm fairly sure it's the same bag on the seat.
That space is empty when they do shows (picture 3)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
A friend who flew with the Blue Angels in the early 1990's said they had a mechanical over the North Pacific and diverted into Cold Bay, Alaska. Many of us have used PACD for an ETOPS alternate on the NOPAC routes. I've never been there myself (except in the simulator).
The hospitality was warm and when the team got things patched up and they were ready to leave the pilots were all given huge frozen fish as a traditional native honor. I guess the C-130 was already in ANC so they put the fish in the cockpit and bent them somewhat to fit into the canopy. My friend did express some concern that an ejection with a fish on top might not go as planned.
