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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 09:17
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Just reading a book about the Rhodesian SAS. There was a bit of a hoo-ha with the air force over badge wearing when the SAS made the wearing of jump wings on the left breast a special award and a mark of recognition within the regiment. In that context, it seemed a worthy award. One might get ones knickers in a twist about RPAS operators wearing wings but then again there's more important things to worry about just now. Which begs the question, doesn't OIC badges have anything better to do just now? He'll have to change the crown in a few years time - lets hope he/she has some worthwhile secondary duties to tide themselves over with in the meantime...

Originally Posted by pr00ne
But what about the Air Stewards?
...you forgot the bar stewards....
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 09:19
  #22 (permalink)  

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One has to think about those that leave the service and take up a civilian flying career. They have to follow the flight and duty limitations of their employer so they cannot jeopardise that by weekend flying.
It may have changed ( I stopped Chipmunk flying in '91), but back then the AEF flying, not being for remuneration, and not part of any civilian organisation, didn't impinge on the crew duty/crew rest regulations.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:19
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Originally Posted by thunderbird7
Just reading a book about the Rhodesian SAS. There was a bit of a hoo-ha with the air force over badge wearing when the SAS made the wearing of jump wings on the left breast a special award and a mark of recognition within the regiment. In that context, it seemed a worthy award. One might get ones knickers in a twist about RPAS operators wearing wings but then again there's more important things to worry about just now. Which begs the question, doesn't OIC badges have anything better to do just now? He'll have to change the crown in a few years time - lets hope he/she has some worthwhile secondary duties to tide themselves over with in the meantime...



...you forgot the bar stewards....

To be fair, it needed sorting out. The correct process for the awarding of flying badges has not been followed since after the AE badge was authorised, and so technically many RAF personnel have been wearing unauthorised badges and so have been incorrectly dressed for most of their careers! (Much to the amusement of the other services). A new process was designed for the RPAS pilot badge, but having published a new process, even that was not followed at the time. This work has been going on for some time, and the correction of the RAF's heritage errors with uniform as finally been made and tied in with a new set of properly and officially authorised FLYING BADGES (not Brevets). All that needs to happen now is the educate the Top Brass who "The Few" actually were in Churchill's speech at the end of the Battle of Britain and hope that that error is finally nipped in the bud.

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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:22
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
But what about the Air Stewards?
Here here Pr00ne. It is an indication of the winged gods syndrome that pervades this forum and the present day RAF that they are not aircrew but a ground trade. The inspiring comment by one member on a subject threat that he wouldn't be taking orders from anyone if a passenger in an airborne emergency or ground evacuation said it all. They are aircrew, even according to the 'independent" MAA, but not by the RAF. Go reckon....
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 10:26
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Originally Posted by 622
Back to the gliding badges, I see they have annotated VGS Pilots/Instructors badges 'Reserve Pilot'. I thought (and probably wrongly as I have been pout of the loop for a while) that the AC officers were no longer VR(T) and were 'Air Cadet' branded now...why are they called Reserve Pilots....have the manning levels got that bad!
Everybody who doesn't fly are "RAFAC" officers with a "Cadet Forces Commission".
Everybody who does fly is a VR(T) officer with an RAF commission.

Nothing like treating equal volunteers differently to help the morale.
​​
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:33
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But what about the Air Stewards?
The IBN “Rationalisation of RAF Flying Badges” did not include Cabin Crew as part of the changes.

It focussed on flying and parachute badges which are awarded iaw QR J727/728 and QR 434-436.

The Cabin Crew badge is not listed as an aircrew badge but is listed under “other qualification badges” and is not issued iaw a QR, it was reviewed and updated fairly recently. The trade has also had a recent name change, they are now known as Air Ground Stewards.



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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 11:47
  #27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by muppetofthenorth
Everybody who doesn't fly are "RAFAC" officers with a "Cadet Forces Commission".
Everybody who does fly is a VR(T) officer with an RAF commission.

Nothing like treating equal volunteers differently to help the morale.
​​
Is that pukka!...I thought VGS Officers were RAFAC
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 12:02
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Originally Posted by Herod
It may have changed ( I stopped Chipmunk flying in '91), but back then the AEF flying, not being for remuneration, and not part of any civilian organisation, didn't impinge on the crew duty/crew rest regulations.
The flying hours all count towards the annual total although there is a weight threshold but duty hours do not. Regardless, need to be adequately rested prior to undertaking flying duties is a handy catch all, my organisation is 12 hours prior.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 12:33
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Originally Posted by 622
Is that pukka!...I thought VGS Officers were RAFAC
God knows. Feels like it changes every 30 seconds.

AEF pilots are definitely VRT
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 12:59
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So if you have been awarded your flying badge as an RAF regular and have left the service, but still fly, say, RAFAC cadets as an AEF pilot, you have to wear the Reserve Pilot badge?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:04
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Originally Posted by thunderbird7
Which begs the question, doesn't OIC badges have anything better to do just now? He'll have to change the crown in a few years time
Not necessarily.

The idea that there is a 'King's Crown' and a 'Queen's Crown' is false. They are, respectively, the 'Tudor Crown' and the 'St Edward's Crown'.

It is up to the Monarch to choose what he or she wants symbolically.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:05
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Originally Posted by Treble one
So if you have been awarded your flying badge as an RAF regular and have left the service, but still fly, say, RAFAC cadets as an AEF pilot, you have to wear the Reserve Pilot badge?
I assume as you earnt your RAF 'regular' wings then you would keep them...or have the option to swap if you preferred!

What about a service helper (non flying regular) who is a part time VGS Instructor ...does he/she wear glider wings on their week day uniform?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:09
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Originally Posted by muppetofthenorth
Everybody who doesn't fly are "RAFAC" officers with a "Cadet Forces Commission".
Everybody who does fly is a VR(T) officer with an RAF commission.

Nothing like treating equal volunteers differently to help the morale.
​​
For those of us who were Regular Officers and who took up VR Commissions to become VR(T) Officers, the enforced removal of the Commission and transfer onto the pathetic Cadet Forces Commission was a kick in the teeth. IMO it was unnecessary and down to people clogging the Redress of Grievances system with petty matters - all that was needed was a change to QR 1000.

With the crossover, Cadet Forces Commissions are no longer subject to QRs whereas VR Commissions are.

The reason AEF Pilots retain their VR Commissions is down to accountabilty given that they are responsible for RAF assets.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:11
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Originally Posted by 622
I assume as you earnt your RAF 'regular' wings then you would keep them.
Correct. QR (RAF)J727 is quite clear on this.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:19
  #35 (permalink)  
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My old No.1s are becoming more obsolete by the minute....VRT pins, old Glider Wings...all they need to do now is change the rank braid to pink with yellow piping and that will be it!

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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 13:51
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astonishing that someone is employed to think about badges........... it was never an option my careers master ever mentioned........ nor was it ever on those Posters "Join the RAF - become a trained badge designer..."
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 14:01
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
astonishing that someone is employed to think about badges........... it was never an option my careers master ever mentioned........ nor was it ever on those Posters "Join the RAF - become a trained badge designer..."
...and what badge would they wear?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 14:10
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Oh I'd guess a quill pen with extra wings.....................
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 14:27
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Originally Posted by ExAscoteer2
Correct. QR (RAF)J727 is quite clear on this.
Thank you ExA. And although its sod all to do with me, quite right too.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 14:32
  #40 (permalink)  

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The idea that there is a 'King's Crown' and a 'Queen's Crown' is false. They are, respectively, the 'Tudor Crown' and the 'St Edward's Crown'.

It is up to the Monarch to choose what he or she wants symbolically.
Exactly so. However, as the last Queen Regnant (Victoria) chose St Edward's and all subsequent Kings chose Tudor it is not surprising that they are mis-called sometimes; assisted by their use on the VC and the GC.

What is more worrying is that the chart at Post 4 above calls it the "QE II Cypher". No it ain't; the cypher is the "postman's badge" of E II R as any ful kno, not the Crown.
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