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British Army lower standards for recruits to the reading age of a 5 year old.

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British Army lower standards for recruits to the reading age of a 5 year old.

Old 7th Apr 2020, 00:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Blaming schools or the education system for the totally unacceptable numbers of illiterates and innumerates it released into socuety is exactly the same as blaming factories and the motor industry for the appaling build quality of BL cars in the '70s and '80s.
Lousy cars are not built by an industry or a factory, they are built by shonky, slovenly workers who take no pride in their job.
The same is true of illiterate schoolkids. They are not educated by a system or a school, they are 'educated' - or not - by teachers.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 03:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Andy Mcnabb in his book, ďToday everything changesĒ gives a moving account of what a positive force military service can be to disadvantaged youth
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 06:11
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
If they canít read already, what a great opportunity for both the Army and the applicant. I can see benefits. Id rather leave education to the same team that brought us The Goons than Mexican drug cartels.

Being facetious, no sense over educating a grunt Wasnít WWI won with actual 5yoís in the trenches? Iím sure I read that somewhere??
Not sure about your comment, but free school milk was introduce after defeat in the Boer war, because the Zulu's were better nourished than the soldier of HM. Most lived in slums and were vitamin D deficient from lack of sunlight. Free school milk was introduced to provide calcium to make their bones stronger.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 06:44
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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There are certainly a number of perspectives:

1. How does low educational attainment help in a world of (apparently increasing) volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity, and where there is increased oversight of activity due to enhanced political sensitivity to inter alia perceivedinappropriate use of force?
2. How does low educational attainment help when our systems (even Infantry weapons, vehicles, comms and ISTAR) are more numerous, capable and frequently more demanding of the operator?
3. The Services, but particularly the Army, have always been a great social mobility mechanism from which individuals leave far more competent and capable than they enter and with far better prospects, very often far more than their school peer equivalents with no military background.
4. The education system seems to fail many young boys/men who go on to achieve impressive things in the Services.
5. In the absence of any significant improvement in the education system, perhaps we should better and more fully acknowledge that we have a duty to ourselves and our people to educate them more? There are potentially multiple benefits, beyond the obvious better educated workforce, including: increased competition for entry; even clearer societal benefits deriving from the Services; increased likelihood of better educated veterans more effectively advocating the case for Defence.

Last edited by Rheinstorff; 7th Apr 2020 at 06:45. Reason: Correcting inappropriate use of italics
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 06:46
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
Blaming schools or the education system for the totally unacceptable numbers of illiterates and innumerates it released into socuety is exactly the same as blaming factories and the motor industry for the appaling build quality of BL cars in the '70s and '80s.
Lousy cars are not built by an industry or a factory, they are built by shonky, slovenly workers who take no pride in their job.
The same is true of illiterate schoolkids. They are not educated by a system or a school, they are 'educated' - or not - by teachers.
You canít blame the teachers in the blanket way you have. A childís first and primary educator is/are the parent(s). Schools can only do so much.

like all things, the problem is more complex than a simplified sweeping statement allows. Without knowing the background to the cases we canít say why the army made the decision they did but one assumes they had to justify it as part of the process.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 06:59
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post

The idea that you want intellectuals as privates in uniform has never been true, nor ever likely to be. The person sought is one who can be trained to follow orders.

.
This this really doesn't capture the essence of today's situation. Perhaps once it was true. However, in a world of mission command (well applied or not), great reliance is placed on individuals, frequently down to the lowest level, to apply thought to seize initiative and to create and exploit opportunities. This is not merely to follow orders, but is much more to pursue intent. This requires a considerable degree of understanding, achieved through very rigorous individual training and education, and collective training. All of these, to some extent, compensate for the poor effect of the education system on many of the people the Services employ. Arguably, if the education system worked a little better, we could spend less time and money on the training we have to and more on the training we'd like to.

I think too, that intellectuals and following orders are not mutually exclusive. I acknowledge that in your (probable) pursuit of a pithy point, you have allowed that inference even if it was (probably) not what you intended.

Last edited by Rheinstorff; 7th Apr 2020 at 07:05. Reason: Spelling correction
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 07:26
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Different skill set required to carry the Mortar or a GPMG and 300 rounds!
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 07:56
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ironpot View Post
Different skill set required to carry the Mortar or a GPMG and 300 rounds!
Carry, probably. Operate, definitely!
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 09:05
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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In both WW's it was commented that the average educational standard of German Infantry was higher than the Brits - and it showed............. The German's were faster to react and less likely to require detailed supervision of all tasks
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 09:42
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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And still they lost.....
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 09:58
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
And still they lost.....
Viet Cong's performance not too shabby either.

CG
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 10:00
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
And still they lost.....
Poor strategy lost the Germans the war.

German tactical action in combat, on the other hand, was very good. Air power in the West and overwhelming numbers of Soviet forces in the East probably more than any other factors, were key to negating that.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 10:03
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Viet Cong's performance not too shabby either.

CG
Conversely, good strategy by the N Vietnamese; fight the war in the living rooms of every US household. Tactical action, not so goo; it's frequently said that the US never lost a tactical battle. Pity its strategy wasn't as good.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 10:38
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rheinstorff View Post
This this really doesn't capture the essence of today's situation. Perhaps once it was true. However, in a world of mission command (well applied or not), great reliance is placed on individuals, frequently down to the lowest level, to apply thought to seize initiative and to create and exploit opportunities. This is not merely to follow orders, but is much more to pursue intent. This requires a considerable degree of understanding, achieved through very rigorous individual training and education, and collective training. All of these, to some extent, compensate for the poor effect of the education system on many of the people the Services employ. Arguably, if the education system worked a little better, we could spend less time and money on the training we have to and more on the training we'd like to.

I think too, that intellectuals and following orders are not mutually exclusive. I acknowledge that in your (probable) pursuit of a pithy point, you have allowed that inference even if it was (probably) not what you intended.
Last year at school, master addressed class,"You will be getting your call up papers soon, when you go in you will be recognised as officer material and some of the others will give you a hard time. Once you get through that, life will be much easier.". As a very shy and not very confident youngster, this did not encourage me. However, shortly after the government scrapped National Service, so I never went through the experience. Don't know if being a natural good shot would have made any difference! A lot of us wanted to be Spitfire pilots, though the machines were obsolete by then. The power of wartime reporting.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 15:24
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Haven’t we been here before?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...d-of-Army.html

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Old 7th Apr 2020, 16:47
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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One hopes that the new recruits will at least be able to read FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY and understand the need for the wording!
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 17:58
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Devil ambidextrous

Between 1962 to 1974, "Tommy's" were somewhat better educated, they must have been as they hired me.!

14th. November 1973 . Mark Phillips, known as "Foggie" by Anne's brothers married the lady in question.

P.S.:"Foggie's"commanding officer was heard to say "Lt.Phillips will go far in the Army because he's a Gentleman". Presumably at that period nothing further was required as an Officer!
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 22:16
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Medium size militaries, like Canada and the UK have a growing problem with recruiting. The idea of the "strategic" corporal/leading seaman/leading aircrewman, is not just hyperbole anymore. We are expecting quite junior personnel to make real time decisions in very ambiguous battle spaces. Plus we are trying to leverage every member to the maximum so the luxury of assigning only a very small well defined to task to everyone to make life simpler for the individual, with multiple people required to accomplish the whole task is not realistic anymore. That and ubiquitous technology means that core competencies require the ability to read with understanding.

It is a perfect storm as the average recruit becomes less fit, less healthy, less mechanically competent, less use to having to make their own decisions, and less competent in basic reading and math; yet the demands and expectations placed on him or her only grow. In Canada we are starting to see a lot of pre course preparation training, which in many cases is basically an accelerated high school program minus the fluffy bits, in order to keep course pass rates for military coursing at an acceptable level.
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 22:51
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rheinstorff View Post
Poor strategy lost the Germans the war.

German tactical action in combat, on the other hand, was very good. Air power in the West and overwhelming numbers of Soviet forces in the East probably more than any other factors, were key to negating that.
Von Clausewitz lost Germany the war!
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Old 8th Apr 2020, 08:34
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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I'm slightly confused here. Why would you not want to pass your initials?
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