VC10 quickie
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
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Still there in BOAC colours I think
One of the above comments brought back a lot of memories for me-a lone VC10 parked outside a small terminal somewhere in what was once the Empire .
I worked in a ot of far flung locations and going home often meant a cab ride through deserted streets to a small airport . It is late at night and the poor quality yellow ramp lights illuminate that amazing tail plane in the old royal blue BOAC colours no other aircraft had that majestic feature .No real security in those days and often not many pax. Sometimes you even recognised a crew member or they recognised you and as you step from the mobile steps (jetties- no way ) across the threshold into the doorway you were 90% of the way home.
On the other hand sometimes-quite often back then- inbound flights were late but no internet or mobile to warn you so you prop up the airport bar,again with people you often know, until you hear that shattering roar of those Conways in full reverse (did all the engines have reversers or just the outers) and then that strange unique ghostly wine when a VC10 taxied in and parked on an empty ramp or one with a couple of Fokker 27s and a well worn DC 3
.
VC10s took me safely smoothly and silently to many places around the world and home again and probably marked the zenith of the days when flying was in anyway romantic.
I worked in a ot of far flung locations and going home often meant a cab ride through deserted streets to a small airport . It is late at night and the poor quality yellow ramp lights illuminate that amazing tail plane in the old royal blue BOAC colours no other aircraft had that majestic feature .No real security in those days and often not many pax. Sometimes you even recognised a crew member or they recognised you and as you step from the mobile steps (jetties- no way ) across the threshold into the doorway you were 90% of the way home.
On the other hand sometimes-quite often back then- inbound flights were late but no internet or mobile to warn you so you prop up the airport bar,again with people you often know, until you hear that shattering roar of those Conways in full reverse (did all the engines have reversers or just the outers) and then that strange unique ghostly wine when a VC10 taxied in and parked on an empty ramp or one with a couple of Fokker 27s and a well worn DC 3
.
VC10s took me safely smoothly and silently to many places around the world and home again and probably marked the zenith of the days when flying was in anyway romantic.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Often used wonder why when landing in a military vc10 at a hostile air head they would turn all the lights out. If you were going to shout it down you would just aim at we're all the noise was coming from.
One of the above comments brought back a lot of memories for me-a lone VC10 parked outside a small terminal somewhere in what was once the Empire .
I worked in a ot of far flung locations and going home often meant a cab ride through deserted streets to a small airport . It is late at night and the poor quality yellow ramp lights illuminate that amazing tail plane in the old royal blue BOAC colours no other aircraft had that majestic feature .No real security in those days and often not many pax. Sometimes you even recognised a crew member or they recognised you and as you step from the mobile steps (jetties- no way ) across the threshold into the doorway you were 90% of the way home.
On the other hand sometimes-quite often back then- inbound flights were late but no internet or mobile to warn you so you prop up the airport bar,again with people you often know, until you hear that shattering roar of those Conways in full reverse (did all the engines have reversers or just the outers) and then that strange unique ghostly wine when a VC10 taxied in and parked on an empty ramp or one with a couple of Fokker 27s and a well worn DC 3
.
VC10s took me safely smoothly and silently to many places around the world and home again and probably marked the zenith of the days when flying was in anyway romantic.
I worked in a ot of far flung locations and going home often meant a cab ride through deserted streets to a small airport . It is late at night and the poor quality yellow ramp lights illuminate that amazing tail plane in the old royal blue BOAC colours no other aircraft had that majestic feature .No real security in those days and often not many pax. Sometimes you even recognised a crew member or they recognised you and as you step from the mobile steps (jetties- no way ) across the threshold into the doorway you were 90% of the way home.
On the other hand sometimes-quite often back then- inbound flights were late but no internet or mobile to warn you so you prop up the airport bar,again with people you often know, until you hear that shattering roar of those Conways in full reverse (did all the engines have reversers or just the outers) and then that strange unique ghostly wine when a VC10 taxied in and parked on an empty ramp or one with a couple of Fokker 27s and a well worn DC 3
.
VC10s took me safely smoothly and silently to many places around the world and home again and probably marked the zenith of the days when flying was in anyway romantic.
Jack
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Civilian Days
I remember Prestwick New York off RWY 03 (6000 ft) with a decent load - the crosswind prevented 13/31 (in those pre-magnetic variation days). The B707 to Toronto canceled. Happy BOAC days!.
I was driving around the end of Belize runway when I saw a VC10 on finals. On touchdown I swear I could see a ripple travelling ahead on the runway.
Butcher Radar, a previous poster may confirm, would observe the landing halfway down the runway and then hold up large score cards; [7] [2], [8] [1]., etc.
Apparently Air Support Command, or whatever the name of the day was, told them to stop it.
Butcher Radar, a previous poster may confirm, would observe the landing halfway down the runway and then hold up large score cards; [7] [2], [8] [1]., etc.
Apparently Air Support Command, or whatever the name of the day was, told them to stop it.
Initially BOAC VC 10s had four reversers., the inboards were later removed, something to do with tailplane oscillation, IIRC.
Effect on landing distance was negligible..
Effect on landing distance was negligible..
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Cosford has had two VC10s as part of the museum. When it was still the Aerospace Museum, it was home to the BA collection which included VC10 'Victor Mike', which was flown in at some point in 1979/1980 as the collection was assembled. BA provided funding for the upkeep of the aircraft, but withdrew this support in the early 2000s. By that point, the 'mission' of Cosford had changed, after the 'Aerospace Museum' moniker was dropped, and the Trustees of the RAFM, AIUI, were unwilling to spend money on BA airframes when their duty was to RAF and Cold War types rather than civilian airframes (I have a very dim recollection that this is why the Britannia was repainted in RAF colours) Most of the BA aircraft were broken up with some (all?) of the fuselages/nose sections preserved and dispersed to other collections (the Viscount survived intact and went to East Fortune, I think it was), and 'Victor Mike's' fuselage now resides at Brooklands.
Edit - Wrong; the 1-11 is still intact and outside at East Fortune; the 707 was meant to go there in one piece as well, but only the forward fuselage survives.
Cosford was thus lacking a VC10 for a period until 'Bob' arrived - via the M6 as you say.
Edit - Wrong; the 1-11 is still intact and outside at East Fortune; the 707 was meant to go there in one piece as well, but only the forward fuselage survives.
Cosford was thus lacking a VC10 for a period until 'Bob' arrived - via the M6 as you say.
Avoid imitations
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Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 412 Likes
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I was driving around the end of Belize runway when I saw a VC10 on finals. On touchdown I swear I could see a ripple travelling ahead on the runway.
Butcher Radar, a previous poster may confirm, would observe the landing halfway down the runway and then hold up large score cards; [7] [2], [8] [1]., etc.
Apparently Air Support Command, or whatever the name of the day was, told them to stop it.
Butcher Radar, a previous poster may confirm, would observe the landing halfway down the runway and then hold up large score cards; [7] [2], [8] [1]., etc.
Apparently Air Support Command, or whatever the name of the day was, told them to stop it.
Ndola T/O performance
Yes, the first BUA VC10 - a Type 1103 later incorporated into BCAL after Caledonian took over BUA in 1970/71 - replaced Britannias on the weekly BR211 route Gatwick/Entebbe/Ndola/Lusaka-City/Salisbury in October 1964, arriving SAY on a Thursday afternoon and departing the following morning on the reverse route at about 08:00 local time. So the more demanding northbound departure from Ndola for Entebbe would have been at about 11:00 local, WHBM?
A report from 1961 states that Rwy 10 at Ndola was 6650 ft long (and only 100 ft wide), with an elevation of 4166 ft amsl. That would still have applied in 1964/5, as the runway was not extended to its present 8250 ft x 150 ft until the late-1960s. In the absence of any figures for stopway and clearway, I'll assume conservatively that they were nil. So TOR, ED/ASD and TOD equal. The runway slope appears to be about 0.4% down.
Assuming still air with a temperature of 27C (ISA+20) - both conservative values - the Type 1103 T/O performance charts indicate a "D" value of 6700 ft, the most limiting parameter in this case, giving an RTOW of about 105.5 tonnes (37 tonnes below structural). Ndola/Entebbe flight time would be about 2 hours. In the absence of any quick-calculation fuel tables, I guess 20 tonnes would be a ball-park fuel figure, using Nairobi as the alternate. APS weight in a typical mixed-passenger configuration was, IIRC, about 70 tonnes, so a payload of 15 tonnes might have been achievable on that short sector.
A report from 1961 states that Rwy 10 at Ndola was 6650 ft long (and only 100 ft wide), with an elevation of 4166 ft amsl. That would still have applied in 1964/5, as the runway was not extended to its present 8250 ft x 150 ft until the late-1960s. In the absence of any figures for stopway and clearway, I'll assume conservatively that they were nil. So TOR, ED/ASD and TOD equal. The runway slope appears to be about 0.4% down.
Assuming still air with a temperature of 27C (ISA+20) - both conservative values - the Type 1103 T/O performance charts indicate a "D" value of 6700 ft, the most limiting parameter in this case, giving an RTOW of about 105.5 tonnes (37 tonnes below structural). Ndola/Entebbe flight time would be about 2 hours. In the absence of any quick-calculation fuel tables, I guess 20 tonnes would be a ball-park fuel figure, using Nairobi as the alternate. APS weight in a typical mixed-passenger configuration was, IIRC, about 70 tonnes, so a payload of 15 tonnes might have been achievable on that short sector.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 3rd Apr 2020 at 12:14. Reason: Minor improvements
Firstly WHBM has a family story from the same area.
Aunt was a stereotypical Expat in Zambia, and was returning to the UK one time from Lusaka. Outward BOAC VC-10 then changed crews at Nairobi, slip crew did the Nairobi-Lusaka-Nairobi rounder, and slipped again for the return. Lusaka BOAC staff was one Expat manager, plus locals.
On this occasion the inbound was indeed late, bit of uncertainty when it might arrive. Poor expat manager doing his best is assailed by an American group of mining engineers until aunt steps forward and informs them firmly "I say, I think [Mr Smith] is really doing his best here, it will come when it comes". Later she passes him at the desk and says she was just going for a cup of tea, and would he like one too.
Finally it arrives and eventually boarding commences. In the disorderly grumbling queue manager leans across and says "Mrs [WHBM's aunt], I have to say you are the only passenger today who has been remotely civil to me". Voice lowers. "Um, I have one first class seat spare. Would you like it ? Ah, good, have you got your boarding card for a moment please ...". Which story she told for the rest of her life.
One of the above comments brought back a lot of memories for me-a lone VC10 parked outside a small terminal somewhere in what was once the Empire.
I worked in a ot of far flung locations and going home often meant a cab ride through deserted streets to a small airport... sometimes-quite often back then- inbound flights were late but no internet or mobile to warn you so you prop up the airport bar ... until you hear that shattering roar of those Conways in full reverse ..
I worked in a ot of far flung locations and going home often meant a cab ride through deserted streets to a small airport... sometimes-quite often back then- inbound flights were late but no internet or mobile to warn you so you prop up the airport bar ... until you hear that shattering roar of those Conways in full reverse ..
On this occasion the inbound was indeed late, bit of uncertainty when it might arrive. Poor expat manager doing his best is assailed by an American group of mining engineers until aunt steps forward and informs them firmly "I say, I think [Mr Smith] is really doing his best here, it will come when it comes". Later she passes him at the desk and says she was just going for a cup of tea, and would he like one too.
Finally it arrives and eventually boarding commences. In the disorderly grumbling queue manager leans across and says "Mrs [WHBM's aunt], I have to say you are the only passenger today who has been remotely civil to me". Voice lowers. "Um, I have one first class seat spare. Would you like it ? Ah, good, have you got your boarding card for a moment please ...". Which story she told for the rest of her life.
Last edited by WHBM; 3rd Apr 2020 at 18:04.
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You should have tried a heavy Vulcan on 2!
Yes, the first BUA VC10 - a Type 1103 later incorporated into BCAL after Caledonian took over BUA in 1970/71 - replaced Britannias on the weekly BR211 route Gatwick/Entebbe/Ndola/Lusaka-City/Salisbury in October 1964, arriving SAY on a Thursday afternoon and departing the following morning on the reverse route at about 08:00 local time. So the more demanding northbound departure from Ndola for Entebbe would have been at about 11:00 local, WHBM?.
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...66/ba66-24.jpg
BR212 - Fridays
Lusaka - 1035
Ndola - 1120/1205
Entebbe - 1515/1615
Gatwick - 2230
