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The F-35 thread, Mk II

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The F-35 thread, Mk II

Old 4th Jun 2024, 10:34
  #921 (permalink)  
 
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Golder's been doing this for decades under various names, as have others. Defamatory per se.

And, of course, liked = endorsed by a self-identified current program employee who knows, from years of history, that there are no consequences for such behavior.

Gosh, you ever wonder how the airplane sells so well? Because this is a little part of the answer; a little part, yes, but part of it.

Last edited by LowObservable; 4th Jun 2024 at 10:51.
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Old 4th Jun 2024, 11:00
  #922 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Now it’s getting ugly with serious accusations being thrown around.

Perhaps the Mods need to take a hand.
What do you mean accusations? Sweetman was a paid journalist, he didn't write for free. You don't think they get airfares and accommodation to air and trade shows?

The 6th gen Gripen
After 10 Years, SAAB "Finally Finds" A Customer For Gripen-E Fighters? Was ‘Hungry’ Since $5.4B Brazil Deal (eurasiantimes.com)
After 10 Years, SAAB “Finally Finds” A Customer For Gripen-E Fighters? Was ‘Hungry’ Since $5.4B Brazil Deal

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Old 4th Jun 2024, 12:22
  #923 (permalink)  
 
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The next time you think you can make a demand of the mod team, take a week off.
T28B

Last edited by T28B; 5th Jun 2024 at 04:35. Reason: You are not a mod
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Old 4th Jun 2024, 18:34
  #924 (permalink)  
 
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The funny thing really is that if I was that corrupt, why doesn't LM just offer me a well paying cushy job? I'll take vp comms, Monaco TYVM.
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Old 4th Jun 2024, 19:52
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I'll admit that my first instinct, when I saw how this was going was to just type "golder and LO, get a room!"
Originally Posted by LowObservable
"Bill Sweetman was being paid per word. For promoting the 6th gen Gripen". False and defamatory.

"You don't think they get airfares and accommodation to air and trade shows?". Also false. For information purposes: Individual journalist travel expenses for company visits and public events are paid or reimbursed by the publication. Companies pay for travel and accommodation only for their own media events for a group of journalists.

Wake up, Mods!
LO, you came back (after a very welcome absence) to stir the pot and then you put on the crybaby act when someone gives it right back to you.
Not a good look.

Back on topic:
How is a Gripen Sixth Gen?
I had thought that all of the stuff that will be able to be called "Sixth Gen' was still on the drawing board.

As to my own crystal ball gazing:
I had posited a few years back that the F-35 was the last manned fighter that the US was going to make.
It would appear that I am mistaken. The USAF seems to be putting together an F-22 replacement.
I guess the F-35 will become the next "Viper" equivalent, albeit a high priced one. (If it isn't one already)

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 5th Jun 2024 at 01:26.
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Old 4th Jun 2024, 22:05
  #926 (permalink)  
 
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I don't mind being told I'm wrong. I'm used to it. From all the people 10-15 years ago who assured me that the program was going just tickety-effin-boo and the schedule and budget were solid now and that my concerns were exaggerated. You may have been one of them.

And today the USAF fighter force is geriatric. (Not me, pro-USAF advocates.) And "in a death spiral" (not me, American Enterprise Institute lefties). Y'all happy with that, as long as your pet airplane's untouched?

I get posts pulled with "play the ball, not the man". Fine. But are you OK with this being a place where defamation is OK?

"A very welcome absence". Such wit.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 01:22
  #927 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowObservable
You may have been one of them.
Had you bothered to read my posts, for comprehension, you'd know better. I have observed that you come here to TRANSMIT and not to RECEIVE.

FFS, they gooned-up the tail hook on the C and it took two years to unscrew it.
The over-the-top price, and cost and schedule, overruns of the F-35 remains one of my frustrations as a US Taxpayer.
Our ******* Congress created this mess with their "One size fits all" mandate based on the Goldwater-Nichols act.
I must now self censor as the number of programs that bit of political cuntery has messed up is legion.

You are small change, lad.
But are you OK with this being a place where defamation is OK?
If you consider that "defamation" you (a) need to grow a thicker skin, and (b) maybe ought to interact where people won't call you out for your antics, snowflake.

This is the Military Aviation sub forum. Please act as though you understand the room that you are in.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 5th Jun 2024 at 01:33.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 03:14
  #928 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Lonewolf_50;11669921
Our ******* Congress created this mess with their "One size fits all" mandate based on the Goldwater-Nichols act.
I must now self censor as the number of programs that bit of political cuntery has messed up is legion.
.[/QUOTE]

Amazing how so many people are proudly, arrogantly wrong and ignorant about history, But then, look at Texas, aka Howdy Arabia. I'd just ask you to go and be wrong by yourself and can the whinging about 40-year-old legislation that has nothing to do with F-35.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 03:56
  #929 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowObservable
Amazing how so many people are proudly, arrogantly wrong and ignorant about history
You have no idea what you are talking about.
, But then, look at Texas, aka Howdy Arabia.
Bloody fork all to do with the F-35. {deleted} go look at the thread topic.
F-35.
That is an aircraft that does not exist in a vacuum. It only exists due to our acts of Congress.
The program was called "Joint Strike Fighter" and it grew out of OUR freaking Roles and Missions bun fight.
You are, at best, down in the noise level.
{Noise removed}

Last edited by T28B; 5th Jun 2024 at 14:09. Reason: that was unnecessary
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 04:03
  #930 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder
You just said..Sweetman was paid by avweek to write articles. His airfare and accommodation was also picked up. What is false and defamatory?
An 'intersting' thread. Not looking to stir the F-35 pot, but just curious as to what it is you're insinuating with this comment, golders. What employee is not paid company expenses for their work?
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 04:22
  #931 (permalink)  
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Suggestion to all.
Talk about the aircraft.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 05:59
  #932 (permalink)  
 
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At least they are taking the crap to twitter, bill has been ranting about golder for the last few hours. At least I can ignore them there
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 09:38
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
How is a Gripen Sixth Gen?
I had thought that all of the stuff that will be able to be called "Sixth Gen' was still on the drawing board.
It was said that Bill's greatest fear. Was that the F-35 would decimate the EU fighter programs. We can see the massive success that Gripen has had.

You need to go back 10 years, when he was spruiking. One of his other SAAB claims, was that the Gripen was going to be the US training aircraft.

2014
The Planet’s Best Stealth Fighter Isn’t Made in America (thedailybeast.com)
a sixth generation will emerge. Saab—yes, that Saab—can argue that it has built the first such aircraft. The Swedish plane has got a mouthful of a name: the JAS 39E Gripen. But it could well be the future of air combat.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 11:21
  #934 (permalink)  
 
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It was said that Bill's greatest fear.

A mind-reader, too,

Was that the F-35 would decimate the EU fighter programs

That was actually the plan from the outset. See lower left of chart. Had it worked, we'd now be facing Mr Putin with no fighter deliveries at all. That would be suboptimal, but then, so is the current situation.

when he was spruiking

I believe this forum's language is English although I am willing to be corrected




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Old 5th Jun 2024, 16:55
  #935 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder
I'm sure the cost of the website. Doesn't compare to what Bill Sweetman was being paid per word. For promoting the 6th gen Gripen. Weren't there also air fares and accommodation paid?
Right. Saab paying journalists? I hope they can track you down and sue the pants off you, because that has never happened.

Or do you mean that McGraw Hill were paying him to promote the Gripen? Even more asinine a suggestion!

Unless you can prove your accusations?

No? Thought not.

So it's just more empty posturing from another F-35 fanboy.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 19:25
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The Gripen E/F seems to have begun deliveries in 2021 to Sweden's and Brazil's Air Forces,. with a start date of roughly 2009.
What "sixth generation" means is still unclear: lower cost?
The decision to not run down the Stealth/Low Observable rabbit hole doubtless has saved money.
The program was already stable with the C model. As I read through a summary on it, I was reminded of the F-18C/D to F-18 E/F evolution. Not sure how comparable they are though.

Didn't see a carrier version in the short poke I did into Gripen's success story. (It was as interesting to see who didn't buy Gripens as it was to see who did).
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 19:27
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I have no axe to grind for or against the F-35 (or the Gripen for that matter), but the suggestion that Bill was a shill because he was ***checks notes*** 'paid for doing his job' is beyond paradoy I'm afraid.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 20:09
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Sixth-generation - an explanation

I used that term in a 2014 op-ed piece as a form of what the WSJ's legendary leader writer Bob Bartley called "muzzle velocity". Language to draw the reader's attention to one's point. Since a lot of people are still mad about it, it must have worked.

My point was that Saab was designing the Gripen E avionics architecture with upgradability as a key point, drawing do and don't lessons from earlier programs and non-defense systems. The principle is that aircraft designs last for decades, hardware technology turns over in years, and software releases can be annual or (if necessary) faster, Hence, partitioning and other features to reduce the need for regression testing and speed the integration of new hardware, S/W and weapons.

The 6gen point was that this was becoming more important as systems became more software-defined.

Did anyone listen? Reporting from last fall:

The most important feature of the [B-21] avionics, however, is an open mission systems architecture: [Northrop Grumman vice president and general manager for strike systems Doug] Young compares older systems with adding peripherals to a computer in the early PC age, where “you had to go through a whole rigmarole to make it work”, but the B-21 has standard interfaces and a partitioned system where changes to the mission systems cannot affect flight-critical functions.

The B-21 program includes a “software factory”, Young says, which is already developing capabilities beyond the service-entry baseline, and, under a program called Spirit Realm, a partitioned architecture is being developed for the B-2 fleet. (Aviation Week)

The government-owned Agile Mission Suite for NGAD “will have the ability to rapidly adapt to emerging technologies and threats”, according to Air Force Congressional testimony, and will be an open architecture system. It will use the partitioning concept introduced to military aircraft by Saab, where flight-critical functions are separated from mission software. [RAeS Aerospace]

Last edited by LowObservable; 5th Jun 2024 at 22:28.
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 21:56
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
I have no axe to grind for or against the F-35 (or the Gripen for that matter), but the suggestion that Bill was a shill because he was ***checks notes*** 'paid for doing his job' is beyond paradoy I'm afraid.
Read above. this what I posted that set him off.
"I'm sure the cost of the website. Doesn't compare to what Bill Sweetman was being paid per word. For promoting the 6th gen Gripen. Weren't there also air fares and accommodation paid?

This was his post I responded to.
Originally Posted by LowObservable
Swiss F-35 - "The right fighter jet for Switzerland" (swiss-f35.ch)

Totally convincing, and not a sign of panic over national buyer's remorse, no sir, Oh, and right now "other reasons" would include the established fact that nobody at this point is quite sure what configuration will be delivered in 2028.

And from the front page: "Switzerland will continue to be able to independently and autonomously determine which data it will exchange with which partners or manufacturers." And they say the Swiss aren't known for humor! I'm sure that there are a few people here who might be able to put them straight on that, or maybe they can try that line out with the 350th Spectrum Warfare Group at Eglin.

And they managed to build that whole site for just over $1000, in Switzerland.

https://swiss-f35.ch/ueber-uns/sponsoren/

An economic miracle, indeed. And you can get a free set of stickers for your 100 CHF donation!
I never said and have no proof that he was being paid by SAAB. I actually said. Although I was quoting a post removed, so my post disappeared too. But it was quoted by someone else before so.
"Originally Posted by golder
You just said..Sweetman was paid by avweek to write articles. His airfare and accommodation was also picked up. What is false and defamatory?"
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Old 5th Jun 2024, 22:03
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Originally Posted by LowObservable
Sixth-generation - an explanation

I used that term in a 2014 op-ed piece as a form of what the WSJ's legendary leader writer Bob Bartley called "muzzle velocity". Language to draw the reader's attention to one's point. Since a lot of people are still mad about it, it must have worked.

My point was that Saab was designing the Gripen E avionics architecture with upgradability as a key point, drawing do and don't lessons from earlier programs and non-defense systems. The principle is that aircraft designs last for decades, hardware technology turns over in years, and software releases can be annual or (if necessary) faster, Hence, partitioning and other features to reduce the need for regression testing and speed the integration of new hardware, S/W and weapons.

Did anyone listen? Reporting from last fall:

The most important feature of the [B-21] avionics, however, is an open mission systems architecture: [Northrop Grumman vice president and general manager for strike systems Doug] Young compares older systems with adding peripherals to a computer in the early PC age, where “you had to go through a whole rigmarole to make it work”, but the B-21 has standard interfaces and a partitioned system where changes to the mission systems cannot affect flight-critical functions.

The B-21 program includes a “software factory”, Young says, which is already developing capabilities beyond the service-entry baseline, and, under a program called Spirit Realm, a partitioned architecture is being developed for the B-2 fleet. (Aviation Week)

The government-owned Agile Mission Suite for NGAD “will have the ability to rapidly adapt to emerging technologies and threats”, according to Air Force Congressional testimony, and will be an open architecture system. It will use the partitioning concept introduced to military aircraft by Saab, where flight-critical functions are separated from mission software. [RAeS Aerospace]
You mean like the f-35, which also has "flight-critical functions are separated from mission software." They even have the ability to change mission library in flight.
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