Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Live Long and Prosper - and the Death of the Fighter

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Live Long and Prosper - and the Death of the Fighter

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 5th Mar 2020, 11:59
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tdracer
So the next thing will be a stealth figther covered in mirrors?
jmmoric is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 15:46
  #22 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,368
Received 1,568 Likes on 714 Posts
https://aviationweek.com/defense-spa...-loyal-wingman

US Air Force Plots Fleet Insertion Path For ‘Loyal Wingman’

The format of the U.S. Air Force’s “fireside chat” series is well-understood. A technology pioneer such as Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson or Mark Cuban appears onstage at an Air Force-affiliated event, counsels an audience of pilots and airmen about innovation and, not least, tries not to offend anyone. Elon Musk arrived at the Air Warfare Symposium on Feb. 28 with a different plan.

The founder of SpaceX and Tesla, who seems to delight in publicly tweaking established competitors in the space market such as Boeing and Lockheed Martin, sat on the Air Force Association’s (AFA) stage and declared that the fighter aircraft—for decades the heart of the Air Force’s tactical combat capability—is already irrelevant.
“The fighter-jet era has passed,” Musk said, provoking audible gasps and murmurs in an audience peppered with officers clad in flight suits. Lt. Gen. John Thompson, Musk’s interviewer, quickly changed the subject........But Musk’s remarks only differed with those of senior Air Force officials at the same event in the details of timing and scope. For over a year, Will Roper, assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisition, technology and logistics, has championed a vision of future airpower populated by numerous, small batches of autonomous aircraft augmenting manned fighters with specialized capabilities. For the first time, Gen. James Holmes, head of Air Combat Command (ACC), offered a path to introducing such aircraft into the fleet around 2025-27.

In the near term, the Air Force is focused on replacing aging F-15C/Ds with a mix of Boeing F-15EXs and Lockheed Martin F-35As. The Air Force decided to add the F-15EX to its inventory last year even as the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) began experimenting with a new class of low-cost aircraft with an “attritable” value.

The first such experimental aircraft, the Kratos XQ-58A Valkyrie, in March 2019 completed the first of four flights made to date. Next year, the Air Force plans to fly the XQ-58A or a similar aircraft with an artificial intelligence “brain,” which allows the so-called Skyborg aircraft to learn maneuvers as it flies. Such capabilities are not far from Musk’s vision of future air combat, but they are too immature to replace a fleet of F-15Cs on the verge of being grounded; hence, the decision to buy the F-15EX instead.

The next opportunity to introduce a new kind of aircraft comes in about 5-8 years, Holmes says. That timing dovetails, perhaps intentionally, with the schedule for maturing aircraft such as the XQ-58A and Skyborg. The Air Force will need to replace hundreds of F-16 Block 25s and Block 30s, which entered production in the mid-1980s.

“There’s an opportunity there if we want to cut in something new, a low-cost attritable, loyal wingman and the different things that we’re looking at and experimenting with,” Holmes says.

In late February, Holmes and Roper met to discuss the meaning of a “fighter aircraft” in the future with the Next-Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program in the backdrop. The program office for NGAD began operations in October, with a focus on inventing a new production process capable of affordably producing small batches of advanced aircraft every 3-5 years. But Air Force officials are still grappling with the definition of basic requirements such as range and payload, as operations in the vast Pacific Ocean dominate the calculations.

“The equation and the kind of math that we use for a fighter still works pretty well in the European environment—the range and payload and distance,” Holmes says. “It’s not as effective a solution in the Pacific, because of the great distances. So as you look at NGAD and you look at the following programs, I wouldn’t expect it to produce things that necessarily look like a traditional fighter.”.........

The XQ-58’s performance helps define the new class of aircraft, called “loyal wingman” in the U.S. and “remote carriers” in Europe. A critical feature shared by the XQ-58 and similar aircraft such as the Boeing Airpower Teaming System (ATS) is range. Both are capable of flying 3,000 nm unrefueled, almost three times the range of the F-35. Unlike the ATS, the XQ-58 does not need a runway to land, and instead deploys a parachute.........




ORAC is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 16:06
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,222
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
I remember, as a brand new pilot on my first squadron, being buttonholed by a very senior officer and told I was wasting my time as the Air Force would be all rockets and missiles within a decade.

That was in 1962.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 20:07
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
I remember, as a brand new pilot on my first squadron, being buttonholed by a very senior officer and told I was wasting my time as the Air Force would be all rockets and missiles within a decade.

That was in 1962.
In fairness, that was sensible career advice, although he really should have told you to go into logistics.
etudiant is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 21:37
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,924
Received 139 Likes on 64 Posts
etudiant,

No it wasn't, not in 1962. Within two years the RAF was dismantling its Thor and Bloodhound 1 sites and any who had chosen 'rocketry" as a career path were in trouble.
pr00ne is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 00:17
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by pr00ne
etudiant,

No it wasn't, not in 1962. Within two years the RAF was dismantling its Thor and Bloodhound 1 sites and any who had chosen 'rocketry" as a career path were in trouble.
Guess I was blinded by my US perspective.
You are entirely right, the UK turned its back on 'one shot' systems, but never came up with an alternative.
Afaik, the Lightning, whose origins predate that era, was the last indigenous UK combat aircraft. All since then has been mutts, no thoroughbreds.
etudiant is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 11:14
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 86
Posts: 2,501
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Herod
Duncan Sandys, Defence Minister UK 1957.

That cancelled my Hunter Course at Chivenor and slotted me into multi engine!
brakedwell is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 11:34
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Angels 20 and climbing
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From todays RAeS blog... end of the 'fighter pilot mafia'?

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/bre...glass-ceiling/
NorthernKestrel is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 12:42
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,803
Received 135 Likes on 63 Posts
Originally Posted by NorthernKestrel
From todays RAeS blog... end of the 'fighter pilot mafia'?

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/bre...glass-ceiling/
VERY thought-provoking. Thanks for posting.
MPN11 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2020, 02:45
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 1 Post
Elon Musk and Popular Mechanics, "Golly Gee Technology" at its worst. I'm surprised he didn't claim all fighter pilots are pedophiles.
FakePilot is online now  
Old 15th Mar 2020, 06:21
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 462
Received 12 Likes on 8 Posts
Aviation started its fledging career as an observation platform (balloons American civil war? Or perhaps Chinese even earlier?). The obvious next step was to stop the opposition from utilising this platform (pistol at two wing spans graduating to more deadlier armament). At some stage someone thought of helping the boys in the mud and dropped “stuff” which became more refined if not overly accurate and could far outreach artillery. The whole military aviation expanded but the basics shifted from gaining intelligence ( particularly when satellites became more prominent) to delivering ordnance. The cry of we need S/A on site was justified until technology became so good whereby you now have more S/A looking inside than outside. Still the argument is there that we need a set of eyes there when the commercial airliner is not responding to see what is happening before we shot it down countered by your zoom lens’s will see more than the naked eye. It is inevitable that the human piloting bit will be removed from the aircraft and numerous other aspects of the military. It is just a matter of when.
finestkind is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.