Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

More Typhoon-bashing ammunition for Rafale fans....

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

More Typhoon-bashing ammunition for Rafale fans....

Old 27th Jan 2020, 12:14
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Paris
Posts: 13
With words such as "Typhoon-bashing" and "ammunitions" in the thread title? Are you kidding? You are an old enough forumer/jorno to know better. Why not close this nonsensical thread and leave Mr Chuet the responsability to his claims (and again, avoid words such as "lying", "warriors" etc. ?
halloweene is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2020, 13:37
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,265
It would be interesting to get a neutral observation of the aircraft from a pilot who has extensively flown both aircraft and doesn't have a 'national pride' card to play. I suspect it would be much of a muchness
Davef68 is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2020, 13:43
  #43 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Just behind the back of beyond....
Posts: 3,946
No, I'm not kidding. The kind of childish nonsense and lies being put forward by the Rafale pilot in this interview need correcting.

RAF, Luftwaffe, AMI, Spanish, Austrian, Saudi, Omani, Kuwaiti and Qatari Typhoon pilots might also be interested what a supposed ally thinks of them and their aircraft....
Jackonicko is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2020, 14:18
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,549
Surely 'knife fight in phone box' 1v1 brawls are so last century now?

BobV, from what I saw in that excellent TV series about Valley, your AD training has moved on a long way from the old 'doggers over the oggers' stuff we did at TWU - and rightly so.

The FAF have always been good at knowing other aircrafts' strengths and weaknesses. During 1982, some Mirage F1 mates came to Wattisham to give the F-4 sqns some DACT. We thought it would be a breeze and it was - for the French! Because they knew precisely where their little jets and Matras held the advantage.
BEagle is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2020, 18:20
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,670
BEagle

Teaching the fine art of doggers has definitely progressed. Even in my time.

You might even say that the improving standard of teaching is strangely coincident with the advent of Typhoon as our AD jet of choice.

I canít speak for the good old days but one thing I know for sure is that we now have a bunch of people who certainly know their stuff in the 3D arena.

Of course we could now launch off down a rabbit hole regarding the relative merits of BFM in the HMCS with high off boresight missile and fifth gen era.

But I wonít.

BV

Bob Viking is online now  
Old 27th Jan 2020, 20:15
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kopavogur
Posts: 154
And then come the Belgians with their old F16’s and shoot every one out of the air 🤪
Icelanta is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2020, 22:48
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 60
Whilst the days of a knife fight in a telephone box SHOULD be long gone it is worth remembering that the politicians and arm chair lawyers at HQ will be writing the ROE.

Who would bet against a requirement to VID before the trigger may be pulled in any future flare up?

Last edited by ASRAAMTOO; 27th Jan 2020 at 22:49. Reason: Spelling
ASRAAMTOO is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2020, 09:36
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 740
I have to admit Msr Chuet's credibility was drastically reduced in my eyes when he spoke of the Harrier and Alpha Jet capabilities. Maybe he got the comments on each reversed but to specifically comment on a Harrier's turning ability (cough, cough) as opposed to its slow speed capability is somewhat remiss. Every bloke down the pub knows he's got that bit wrong
Pontius is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2020, 12:57
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Joobs
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Teaching the fine art of doggers has definitely progressed. Even in my time.

You might even say that the improving standard of teaching is strangely coincident with the advent of Typhoon as our AD jet of choice.

I canít speak for the good old days but one thing I know for sure is that we now have a bunch of people who certainly know their stuff in the 3D arena.

Of course we could now launch off down a rabbit hole regarding the relative merits of BFM in the HMCS with high off boresight missile and fifth gen era.

But I wonít.

BV
So has the manly art of dick waving, hey Bob? It seems to be in full 'swing' amongst you lot. And everyone's welcome to join in unless you're French or don't rate Typhoons highest.
I think you should definitely go off up your rabbit hole on BFM, ATM etc. Let's hear it.
Muttley Crew is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2020, 13:18
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Right here, right now
Posts: 257
Understandably if ones judgement is how one has been impressed by an air display, no wonder one's advice differs from that of those who fly those airplanes professionally.
indeed one consumed currywurst in just such last time one was in Berlin. The chances of your first and second alternatives being consumed are zero. One studiously avoids junk and always has
Anyone else think that the 2 quotes above have been written by the same author? The 2 are posted under different usernames but in certain JB threads they 'both' hold extremely similar political viewpoints, but the username that is not used in here (military aviation) has made his dislike of the military very clear in JB. Mmmmmmm

Last edited by MFC_Fly; 28th Jan 2020 at 15:05.
MFC_Fly is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2020, 13:35
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,670
Muttley

What you and a few others havenít grasped is that I, and several others, are not sticking up for Typhoon because weíre British and the Typhoon is (part) British.

We are giving a subjective opinion based on our professional knowledge of fighter jets.

Others are basing their opinions on second hand opinions from an acquaintance.

What if I were to tell you that I think the F15 is better than the Tornado? What would be my motivation then? Would you trust my word or say I am being biased?

Think of a subject you know about and then imagine someone who clearly lacks knowledge and experience claims you donít know what youíre talking about?

If an esteemed pilot who has more knowledge than myself (there are an awful lot of them out there) were to tell me Iím wrong then I would definitely sit up and take notice.

For the record, I think Rafale is a fantastic aircraft. But, in my professional, unbiased, opinion Typhoon is better.

As with many subjects on this forum I am increasingly regretting getting involved in the discussion.

Time to give it a rest I think.

BV
Bob Viking is online now  
Old 28th Jan 2020, 14:31
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Suffolk
Age: 70
Posts: 30
Thumbs up

There I was cruising the North German Plain at 420kts, 250ft when an F16 appeared in my 10 oíclock turning left. He rolled out in my 12 oíclock about a mile ahead. Without manoeuvring at all I selected Ait-to-Air override and fired the radar to let him know he had just been engaged.

The F16 went into a hard break left, I flew on straight and level, he turned again into my 6 oíclock and engaged me, but I shot him first so I didnít react.

So, what do we deduce from this? Easy, the Tornado GR1 is a better fighter than an F16.
Odanrot is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 00:59
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
Anyone else think that the 2 quotes above have been written by the same author? The 2 are posted under different usernames but in certain JB threads they 'both' hold extremely similar political viewpoints, but the username that is not used in here (military aviation) has made his dislike of the military very clear in JB. Mmmmmmm
MFC_Fly, all I can tell is that I'm the author of the first quote, but I know nothing of the second one (and BTW never spoke about the military on JB).
I quoted some remarks between one Air Force buddy who flew both airplanes and his colleagues, tought it was of interest, and got flamed for it,
Somehow Muttley Crew has got it right, no good being "not from around here", or knowing people that actually flew both birds.
Not sure many people around here have been flying any of them, for that matter.
Fly Aiprt is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 09:14
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 59
Posts: 1,208
Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
100% correct - although a little luck can help too.

As the artillery (and men with little willies) often said: "It's the gunner, not the gun, who counts most!"

Best combat proven air defence jet? Still the F-15C, I would think.
Apologies for a tiny thread drift, but reading Beagle's observation about the F-15C, and I from what I a non-pilot understands, I wouldn't disagree. However, one question, I often wonder how our own much vaunted EE/BAC/BAE Lightning would have faired in actual combat? I read once that in much later years one Lightning pilot admitted to having been bested, eventually, by a Belgian F-16. I believe it was a mark 6, the Lightning chap was using reheat and keeping the F-16 boy off his tail. Eventually the F-16 got a shot and claimed victory.
Later, on solid ground, the RAF pilot asked the FAB pilot how he managed to get a shot finally, the Belgian replied that he was finding it difficult, so he decided to use reheat himself!

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 11:01
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Right here, right now
Posts: 257
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
MFC_Fly, all I can tell is that I'm the author of the first quote, but I know nothing of the second one (and BTW never spoke about the military on JB).
If you read what I posted I said your the other username has made their feelings about the military clear on JB, not the username you use in this discussion. Looking closely at the posts from both usernames there are just so many similarities in style and in what is said to be purely coincidental

It wouldn't be the first time someone trying to troll has used multiple usernames
MFC_Fly is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 13:14
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: French Alps
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
It wouldn't be the first time someone trying to troll has used multiple usernames
It's just that I'm not trolling or launching accusations...
If you have access to the posters' IP addresses, easy enough to determine where the messages are coming from.
If not, well there remains accusations of being a bot etc.

As a sweeping consideration, vehement and ad hominem posters might be considered more likely to use multiple usernames than ordinary people
Fly Aiprt is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 15:24
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Right here, right now
Posts: 257
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
It's just that I'm not trolling or launching accusations...
I have read your posts in JB and I humbly disagree with what you say above.

Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
If you have access to the posters' IP addresses, easy enough to determine where the messages are coming from.
Very easy to get around with the simple use of VPN's.

Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
As a sweeping consideration, vehement and ad hominem posters might be considered more likely to use multiple usernames than ordinary people
As might those that have only signed up (relatively) recently and have many remarkable similarities with another long-standing member, especially in several JB threads.
MFC_Fly is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 20:01
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 33
Anything on Hush Kit really needs taking with a pinch of salt. A huge pinch. Hope all is well BV.
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 22:38
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: au
Posts: 59
I must be missing something. Reading between the lines. The pilot says, the Rafale is challenged, up high and low with the Typhoon and F/A-18. While the F-16, it's everywhere. Then with missiles, you add a HMS and everything goes pear shape. He didn't say anything about BVR.

Last edited by golder; 29th Jan 2020 at 22:55.
golder is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2020, 11:41
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 53
Posts: 765
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Anything on Hush Kit really needs taking with a pinch of salt. A huge pinch. Hope all is well BV.
Though their habit of Blackburn bashing is quite funny.
MAINJAFAD is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.